Latest post Sun, Nov 8 2009 5:30 AM by TCurren. 22 replies.
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  • Wed, Feb 22 2006 4:35 PM

    • DMcL
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    HD closed-captioning

    Can you edit into a closed captioned HD tape?  In SD, if you need to fix a shot you can

    insert your video and crop the picture (picture in a picture) x amount of lines down from the top not to

    disturb captioning.  How does it work in HD, I get many different answers.  Thanks. 

  • Wed, Feb 22 2006 5:15 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    In HD there are HANC and VANC. Get used to these terms:

    Horizontal
    Ancillary
    Data
    Space

    Vertical
    Ancillary
    Data
    Space

    That's where your CC metadata now lives. If you search the web for thsoe keywords, you will get lots of info, for example:

    "In standard definition broadcasting, it is very well understood how closed captioning data goes into the VBI (vertical blanking interval) of the analog signal. Handling closed caption or subtitling information for HD is very different from the way it is handled in SD.

    In HD the data for closed captioning is carried in the VANC and HANC data area of the uncompressed video signal. When the signal is compressed in an HD encoder, the data is mapped onto MPEG user data. There are two standards that describe how closed caption data is handled in the uncompressed video signal and a single standard on how it is handled in the compressed signal. The relevant standards for the uncompressed domain are SMPTE-334M and EIA-708-B (EIA- 608-A for SD). For compressed video ATSC A53B specifies an area in the MPEG-2 user data where the closed caption data is stored.

    When playing out baseband HD an MPEG HD decoder that supports closed captioning extracts the MPEG user data stored in accordance with ATSC A53B and inserts it in the VANC/ HANC of the baseband HD signal in accordance with the EIA-708/608 and SMPTE-334M specifications. This methodology replicates the closed captioning functionality of the analog NTSC transmission system."
    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

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  • Wed, Feb 22 2006 5:17 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    ...So your question should be how do you preserve, or not preserve that info....

    Rob? Greg?
    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

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  • Wed, Feb 22 2006 6:29 PM In reply to

    • DMcL
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    Yes, thanks for the info.
  • Wed, Feb 22 2006 7:15 PM In reply to

    • robg
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    Symphony Nitris does not support the capture or playback of HANC / VANC information.

    - Rob

     

  • Thu, Mar 2 2006 11:37 PM In reply to

    • rdeditor
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    Will it? This is a very important issue because if we have to do a fix on a show we don't want to have to have the whole show recaptioned to fix a 2 second shot.
    Freelance. Symphony, Symphony Nitris, DS Nitris [view my complete system specs]
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  • Wed, Mar 26 2008 11:40 PM In reply to

    Re: HD closed-captioning

    OK, so this was nearly 2.5 years ago and I'm wondering if things have changed. I'll post a new thread on the matter, but I wanted to tag onto this - just in case. dave
    Dual 2.3 Ghz Mac G5 | 4.5 GB Ram | Mac OS 10.5.4 | QT 7.5 [view my complete system specs]

     

  • Thu, Mar 27 2008 5:27 AM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    Same answer, you are still screwed!

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

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  • Tue, Dec 9 2008 9:58 PM In reply to

    • macnotacno
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    Hi,

    I'm working on an AVID adrenaline and digitizing HD Cams that have Closed Captioning.  How can one tell if AVID has captured the Closed Caption from tape?

    My ultimate goal is to ingest HD CAM with CC, export a DNX145 and drop that file to a transcoding system.  One of the key things here is for me to know wheather or not the actual CC is being captured from the tape.

     

    Thanks,

    m

  • Wed, Dec 10 2008 1:21 AM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    I'm confused. You want the CC to carry out via the export to another system and survive transcoding?

    I would rate that Highly unlikely!!

     

    The CC capture in Adrenaline only works if NOTHING is changed in the media and sent back out to tape. The slightest change, like adding color correction, adding a dissolve, etc. kills it. That leads me to believe it won't be going out on export.

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

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  • Wed, Jun 24 2009 4:38 PM In reply to

    Re: HD closed-captioning

    Hi TCurren,

    I"m attempting to ingest a tape with CC using DNXHD 194 adrenaline which is supported. Using the console I assured embeddnxcc was on but still nothing? Any ideas. Have you had to adjust any of the other settings like slots etc...Media is basic cuts nothing else.

     

    tks

    CEc

  • Wed, Jun 24 2009 6:22 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    I never got it to work in testing. Since it wasn't going to really work for our workflow anyway, I never followed up. :-(

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

    www.alphadogs.tv

    www.digitalservicestation.com

    www.editorslounge.com

  • Thu, Jun 25 2009 1:18 AM In reply to

    • Sco
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    I know it works because I did it once.  I have stuff written down at work on how to do it.

    I'll try and post it tomorrow

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    Scott Cumbo

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  • Thu, Jun 25 2009 3:11 PM In reply to

    • Sco
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    This is what we followed to get it to work...

    http://avid.force.com/pkb/LegacySearch?DocId=245997&Hilite=hd+closed+caption

     

    Home system - Asus P5Q3, Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83Ghz , Quadro FX 1700, 8 GB Crucial DDR3 PC3-10600, Vista Business 64-bit Work system - HP Xw8400... [view my complete system specs]

    Scott Cumbo

    Broadway Video, NYC

  • Mon, Jun 29 2009 11:33 PM In reply to

    • meli
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    Re: HD closed-captioning

    We're you ever able to edit the captioning?  Meaning, if I cut to a shot that has dialogue, then the CC for the dialogue probably precedes the video by a second or two.  So to preserve the CC, you would need to wipe in the CC on the outgoing shot.  This is pretty easy on SD since you can see the CC signal.  But on HD, (AFAIK) there is no way to see the CC.

    Were you ever able to do this with HD material?  Or is that wipe on the outgoing video considered an effect, and thus it makes editing CC impossible?

     

    Avid Symphony Nitris [view my complete system specs]
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