Latest post Mon, Jun 11 2012 11:17 AM by Larry Rubin. 15 replies.
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  • Thu, Jun 7 2012 9:15 AM

    • Bobby
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    • Ramsay
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    Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    Ive been wrestling with this issue now for a while and i've finally broken down and decided to ask all of you experts for some advice. I work for a community access station at a high school. We are on the air 24x7 and broadcast on cable to the city. We broadcast in standard def but our studio is HD ready. We are using the Showmaker Pro software from D-Co, which is part of the Digicaster system. http://d-co.com/products.php?pid=39. It plays out standard mpeg2 files. I will list the file specs at the bottom of this explanation. We ingest our programming in 2 ways: Digicaster will encoding in real-time the playback of DVD or DVCPro tapes, or directly importing mpeg2 files. We produce over 100 hours of programming a month from our studios and we record to DVCPro tape. As you can imagine, this means A LOT of tapes.

    I am trying to develop a streamlined workflow to cut down on the time spent encoding all of our programming in real time. Theoretically, here is how I would like it to work: Our shows are recorded live-to-tape, but simultaneously also captured live via SDI to an Avid MC Nitris DX system . From there, we would simply need to make any necessary edits and export a QT of the 30min show to our Editshare SAN. In our Master Control I have a pc with Sorenson that is connected to the Editshare and also networked to the Digicaster system. As you know we require a conversion program since Avid cannot export mpeg. I want to create a Sorenson Watch Folder on the Editshare and whenever shows are eported there, Sorenson will convert the QT to mpeg2 and place the new file in our Digicaster system where we simply have to import it into the system (no encoding or creating of more media required). Sounds good, right?

    Well here are the issues i've come across. First, Exporting to QT Ref has its issues because the Sorenson computer is not connected to the media drives of the Editshare. There is a shared drive that all Editshare users have access to and that is where the shows are exported to as self-contained QT. Only the individual users can access the media drives and we have separate usernames for almost every show. This isn't a major issue, it just requires more oversight to delete the QT after the mpeg has been made. 30 min of uncompressed QT adds up pretty quickly. 

    The big issue is the exact specifications for the QT export out of Avid and the Sorenson filter I use for creation of the MPEG. I have been able to export the QT to the watch folder, sorenson has converted the file, and then placed it in our Digitizer...with one issue. Something must be wrong with my settings because when I playback on the NTSC monitor the show has a jittery, progressive look on the areas of the screen where there is motion. My thought is that somewhere along the line, the video file is being de-interlaced or losing frames and when its played back at 30i on a tv, its distorted. Obviously, it looks fine on a computer. Also, when the mpeg is played back in our digicaster, the audio levels dropped considerably. We try to keep the levels at -20db but the audio on the mpeg is considerably less, probably closer to -40db. 

    To know the exact specs, I looked at the data of an mpeg file that was encoded from tape. The settings are as follows:

    Video

    Type: MPEG2

    BitRate: 8 000 000

    Frames/sec: 29.97

    Size: 720x480

    Aspect Ratio: 4:3

    Profile: Main

    Level: Main

    is Interlaced: Yes, 2 field/sample

    Audio

    Type: MPEG-1

    Sample Rate: 48 000 Hz

    Bit Rate: 224 kbps

    Mode: Layer II

    Channels config: Stereo

     

    From Avid I export as Quicktime Movie. 601/709 color. 4:3 non-square pixels. Do not use Avid DV codec. In Sorenson the filter with the closest settings to those described above were for creating an mpeg for DVD, which makes sense beause DVD quality and broadcast quality are very similar. I used that filter and tweaked the values to match the above settings. The video looks the correct color, size and frame rate, but it just has that distorted, progressive look on the areas of the screen where there is motion. I'm almost positive it's an interlacing issue. Normally people are trying to de-interlace video, but not this time! And also the audio drops considerably without me adding a filter in sorenson to boost the audio to conpensate. 

    Does anyone have suggestions for the workflow i am trying to create? Tips for which encoding program to use? I also have Telestream Episode Pro available but it doesn't work on the Sorenson computer in our Master Control (I thinks its a Vista issue) Am I doing anything glaringly wrong? Let's just say i've learned a lot about codecs when dealing with this. If anyone knows exact specs for a Sorenson filter I would greatly appreciate it. Please let me know what you think. 

    P.S. I am currently i the process of upgrading our Avid MC from v5.0.3 to v6.0.1.1 Are there any new features that will help with my dilemma?

     

    Thank you everyone for the help.

    Bobby Ramsay

    Memphis, TN

    MC 8.4.1, Nitris DX & Artist DNxIO, HP Z840, Win 7 Pro/64, DVCPro, XDCAM PDW-U2, Editshare, Telestream Episode, Adobe CC [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jun 7 2012 9:45 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    Bobby , I was going to answer but with your multiple threads that´s not possible, sorry for that

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Thu, Jun 7 2012 10:43 AM In reply to

    • Bobby
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    • Ramsay
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    This is the first time I've posted to a forum. Sorry, but i'm not too well versed in the acceptable protocol for these things. To tell you the truth I didnt know which forum to place this in.

    MC 8.4.1, Nitris DX & Artist DNxIO, HP Z840, Win 7 Pro/64, DVCPro, XDCAM PDW-U2, Editshare, Telestream Episode, Adobe CC [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jun 7 2012 11:10 AM In reply to

    • Tom Pearson
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    first check your audio settings as in 3o years of sound mixing I have never heard of 40 k there is 44.1 k (cd quality) or 48 k pro quality  and 96k  music master quality 

    Mac Pro 3.5 gig 6 core 64 gig ram D700 radons with ssd os drive with a 20 tb raid, Artist Mix and Artist color Artist control [view my complete system specs]

    Tom Pearson

    Director/Writer Big Picture Films

    Sound Designer/Sound Editor Hollywood Sounds

    WWLD

  • Thu, Jun 7 2012 11:28 AM In reply to

    • Bobby
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    Tom, you're right. I've never heard of 40k either. I meant 48k.

    MC 8.4.1, Nitris DX & Artist DNxIO, HP Z840, Win 7 Pro/64, DVCPro, XDCAM PDW-U2, Editshare, Telestream Episode, Adobe CC [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jun 7 2012 11:37 AM In reply to

    • Tom Pearson
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    thought it might be a typo you have a lot to look after  with that system good luck

     

    Mac Pro 3.5 gig 6 core 64 gig ram D700 radons with ssd os drive with a 20 tb raid, Artist Mix and Artist color Artist control [view my complete system specs]

    Tom Pearson

    Director/Writer Big Picture Films

    Sound Designer/Sound Editor Hollywood Sounds

    WWLD

  • Thu, Jun 7 2012 11:39 AM In reply to

    • Tom Pearson
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    if you ever need any sd stuff I have a whole sd studio in the back room collecting dust

    Mac Pro 3.5 gig 6 core 64 gig ram D700 radons with ssd os drive with a 20 tb raid, Artist Mix and Artist color Artist control [view my complete system specs]

    Tom Pearson

    Director/Writer Big Picture Films

    Sound Designer/Sound Editor Hollywood Sounds

    WWLD

  • Thu, Jun 7 2012 11:45 AM In reply to

    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    Also Bobby, please upload a video clip of the "jitter" problem you're seeing to YouTube or Vimeo so we can see what you're seeing and can go from there.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Thu, Jun 7 2012 1:45 PM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    Ok, seems to be only one thread now, multiple threads and crosspostings between them makes it very difficult to have a nice clean discussion so that was my one and only reason to my first comment

    Some questions, are you only PC based or could you integrate a Mac system somehow if that solved your problems.

    From where do your origin media come, what is the properties and what are the settings of the projects you are working with ( you have already mentioned that but I want to have it clear that you are doing SD all the way and no HD at all inside it )

    What version of Squeeze is used and what workflow do you have to get the media into Squeeze, you are mentioning uncompressed SD but it seems like you are doing that export manually, I would be interested in what happens if you first make a mixdown to 1 : 1 and then export Same as Source .

     

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Thu, Jun 7 2012 1:58 PM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    Larry Rubin:

    Also Bobby, please upload a video clip of the "jitter" problem you're seeing to YouTube or Vimeo so we can see what you're seeing and can go from there.

    Larry, I don´t think that we will see those errors on a webclip as this seems to be an " interlaced only" problem

    Quote from Op

    Obviously, it looks fine on a computer.

    I think that I´m on the right track about doing changes in the exporting workflow to fix this

     

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Sat, Jun 9 2012 7:26 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    Bobby, just curious, did that mixdown and SAS export fix your field problems

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Sun, Jun 10 2012 1:47 AM In reply to

    • Bobby
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    • Ramsay
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    The issue was completely user error. In Sorenson, I had negelcted to click the "advanced" tab on the export settings and change from progressive to interlaced.

    MC 8.4.1, Nitris DX & Artist DNxIO, HP Z840, Win 7 Pro/64, DVCPro, XDCAM PDW-U2, Editshare, Telestream Episode, Adobe CC [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 10 2012 7:14 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    Ok, that happens, I have done it myself

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Sun, Jun 10 2012 9:01 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    mjolnarn:
    Ok, that happens, I have done it myself
    Haven't we all!

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 11 2012 7:08 AM In reply to

    • newyankee
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    Re: Need help streamlining workflow to create NTSC mpeg2 for broadcast

    In the last few months, I have seen interlace error video (line seperation during fast motion) actually broadcast on PBS channels in the SF Bay area. Wondering what they were doing.

    Asus P9x79Pro MB, Intel I7 3930K overclocked to 4GHz, Quadro FX3800, MC 8.3.1 /Symphony, Raid 0 / 3ware controller, Win 7 Pro 64, 32 Gig Ram, Matrox MX02... [view my complete system specs]
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