Latest post Thu, Sep 12 2013 10:17 AM by David Yardley. 9 replies.
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  • Fri, Aug 3 2012 4:21 PM

    Software-Only vs. Hardware-driven In Regards to 10-Bit

    I've noticed that the 10bit option in the video quality menu on my timeline is only available on the hardware-driven Avids at my office. (The ones running off Nitris boxes etc.)

     

    I have a few computers that are software-only Avids and was curious how they handle 10-bit, if at all?

    Do they peak at 8-bit?

    To my understanding, if it's not 10-bit on the timeline it is not 10-bit anywhere. My assumption is that in order to do 10-bit I need to be on a hardware-driven Avid.

     

    Is a software only Avid capable at all of handling 10-bit and if so does it treat it the same way as a hardware-driven Avid?

     

    Thanks in advance.

  • Fri, Aug 3 2012 4:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Software-Only vs. Hardware-driven In Regards to 10-Bit

    The video quality setting only affects the output and for the GUI display of playing picture (ie software only) 8 bit is the display limit.

    The quality of the media is determined by the resolution you are working at so if it's an X resolution it's 10 bit.

    However there are only limited ways of getting media into MC at 10bit. I believe a regular import and AMA limit you to 8 bit (even if you import or transcode to an X resolution)

    I think fast import of 10bit media works as does capturing from a 10bit source (tape)

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  • Mon, Aug 27 2012 12:46 AM In reply to

    Re: Software-Only vs. Hardware-driven In Regards to 10-Bit

    Pat Horridge:

    The video quality setting only affects the output and for the GUI display of playing picture (ie software only) 8 bit is the display limit.

    The quality of the media is determined by the resolution you are working at so if it's an X resolution it's 10 bit.

    However there are only limited ways of getting media into MC at 10bit. I believe a regular import and AMA limit you to 8 bit (even if you import or transcode to an X resolution)

    I think fast import of 10bit media works as does capturing from a 10bit source (tape)

     

    Hang on... could you please repeat that just to make sure I am understanding this right:

    You're saying that if I import (either traditional import OR AMA) -- that it will always bring the footage in at 8bit, even if my media creation settings are DNx175X ? 

    This essentially means that if I want to import something at 10bit I need to transcode it as such beforehand, outside of Avid, and then do a fast-import?  That is the only way as far as importing files goes?  If so, what's the point of offering 175X as a transcode option at all for imports or AMA linked media?

     

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  • Mon, Aug 27 2012 2:28 PM In reply to

    • BobRusso
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    Re: Software-Only vs. Hardware-driven In Regards to 10-Bit

    I think there's a little bit of confusion here. The QT engine on Windows only supports 8 Bit playback. There might be some cases when File > Import will result in a QT that's 10 bit and it will only be 8 bit. This is only on Windows and only for files that use the QT Engine for import. It's my understanding that this has been resolved and is not the case. I'd have to check to find out but as a rule, never File > Import any files.

    With AMA, I know for certain this isn't the case. Even codecs that can't be consolidated (Sample Provider) will be 10 bit if transcoded to a 10 Bit codec.

    The Display settings are completely different, it only impacts the displaying of the video.

     

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  • Tue, Aug 20 2013 1:02 AM In reply to

    Re: Software-Only vs. Hardware-driven In Regards to 10-Bit

    What about getting media back out of Avid MC osftware only or non Avid hardware (eg Matrox)?

     

    In MC5.5 we were unable to get 10bit out of the Avid whether it be 16bit TIFF or Cineon frame sequences or 10bit Uncompressed QT.  Everything we tried had the tell tail signs of 8 bit expanded to 10 bit on the wave form monitor.

    Does anyone know if there is a way to ouput 10bit media from Avid MC 6.5 or 7 successfully as a file of some sort, without the use of a Nitris box going straight to tape?

     

    Thanks

     

    Jonno

    iMac (27", Late 2013, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB, OS X 10.10.5) Connected to 27" Thunderbolt Display, BlackMagic UltraStudio Express (10.7... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Sun, Aug 25 2013 6:19 PM In reply to

    Re: Software-Only vs. Hardware-driven In Regards to 10-Bit

    Just use a 10 bit codec?

    Jonno,  You on Mac or Windows?

    I'm just a notalentwannabe but aren't folks making this harder than it is?

    Y'all be cool,

    Robert A. Ober

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    Robert A. Ober
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  • Wed, Sep 11 2013 12:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Software-Only vs. Hardware-driven In Regards to 10-Bit

     

    Mac.

     

    So if I output with Avid DNxHD185 X then I'll get true 10bit?  I'll give it a go.

     

    If I do it with non Avid codecs, even if the file is 10bit, it seems to be re-sampled as 8bit as it goes through the QT engine and stretched to 10bit for the resulting quicktime file (we checked on a scope).  But haven't tried the DNxHD X codecs yet.

     

    Thanks for the suggestion,

     

    Jonno

    iMac (27", Late 2013, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB, OS X 10.10.5) Connected to 27" Thunderbolt Display, BlackMagic UltraStudio Express (10.7... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Thu, Sep 12 2013 9:36 AM In reply to

    • Radman
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    Re: Software-Only vs. Hardware-driven In Regards to 10-Bit

    Hi,

    Would be great to have the facts on this 10bit issue as soon as.

    Cheers, Radman.

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  • Thu, Sep 12 2013 10:11 AM In reply to

    Re: Software-Only vs. Hardware-driven In Regards to 10-Bit

    Radman:

    Hi,

    Would be great to have the facts on this 10bit issue as soon as.

    Cheers, Radman.

    Bottom line, if you HAVE a 10bit source and you want to make sure you preserve it: AMA link first, then consolidate or transcode to another 10 bit codec: J2K, ProRes, DNxHD X

    If you want to also monitor your edit while in 10 bit, you must own a video I/O card.  Example, with my aja t-tap I am able to get 10-bit output onto a broadcast monitor. At the bottom of the timeline where your quality controls are: yellow, yellow/green, green, and you'll also have another options:  a solid green with a "10" written inside of it.  This signifies 10bit.  

    Bonus point:  If you have a 12 bit ProRes file and "fast import" it, and still retain the 12 bits of information for color correction.  

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  • Thu, Sep 12 2013 10:17 AM In reply to

    Re: Software-Only vs. Hardware-driven In Regards to 10-Bit

    I think the answers given by Avid in this post are still valid for legacy import/export:

    http://community.avid.com/forums/p/96816/560622.aspx#560622

    The manual should be definitive on these crucial issues.

    However for file based I/O Bob hardware is irrelevant.

    Symphony 7.06 OS 10.9.5 QT 7.6.3 Mac Pro 2x2.66 6-core 32GB Ram Aja Kona Lhi. MC 7.0.6 OS 10.9.5 Mac Pro 5.1 2x2.97 6-core 32GB ram Aja I/O express, Apple... [view my complete system specs]
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