Latest post Sat, Feb 11 2017 2:23 PM by jef. 18 replies.
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  • Fri, Jan 6 2017 7:26 PM

    • Matt
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    Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    Hi all, I'm running Media Composer 8.4.4 with a decklink mini monitor and Blackmagic Desktop Video driver version 10.5.4

     

    AVID seems to be very sluggish in this configuration, especially when entering trim mode, using trim mode with J-K-L keys, or dragging edits manually with the mouse. When I turn off the hardware video output, performance returns to normal, so it seems pretty clear that the decklink is the culprit.

     

    I'm wondering if anyone has noticed this problem too, or has had success with a different driver version. I've played briefly with some other drivers versions, but many seem to crash Avid outright.

     

    Thanks,
    Matt 

    Mac Pro (late 2013) |OS X 10.12.6 Sierra | 32 GB RAM | Dual AMD FirePro D500 | | MC 2018.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 7 2017 3:23 PM In reply to

    • Bruno M
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    Hi Matt,

    The closest I've got to your setup is MC 8.5.3 on an HPZ800, Decklink SDI 4K with the same Blackmagic Desktop video driver (10.5.4) and this works without any problems.

    My advice in starting to track down the problem is to rule out the Decklink card and/or it's PCIE slot location by running some other software. The easiest way to do this would be to try it with the free version of Davinci Resolve. You may be asked to update the Nvidia drivers when you install Resolve as it might require a later version than the one you installed for MC.

    Bruno


    HP Z800, HP G3 Studio, SonnetFusion RAID, Mojo DX, Symphony 2018.9, JVC DTV1910 HD tube monitor, HP Dreamcolor, Avid Artist Color [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 7 2017 6:16 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    I can also confirm MC 8.5.3 works well with an Intensity Shuttle USB 3.0, on both 10.5.4 and 10.8.3 (others between didn't work). I think it is your version of Avid (8,4.4) that may be the culprit. If you can try a later version of MC.

    I use the Avid BM drivers for the DNxIO, they are no different to the pure BM ones, except they include the Connect plugin for Fusion, which works well on Windows, with MC.

  • Wed, Jan 11 2017 9:05 PM In reply to

    • Matt
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    Thanks for the replies everyone. I've tried to update to 10.8.3, but the drivers won't run because of a change in the way windows handles driver signing (this is according to BlackMagic tech support). (FWIW, 10.5.4 is the last version that supports the "old" driver signing)

     

    So I need to run some updates to Win7 to allow it to support the updated method of code signing. But I'm a bit reticent, for fear of "breaking" AVID. Did any of you have to deal with this when upgrading to 10.8.3? Blackmagic did send me a link to the specific security update that supposedly enables the new driver signing, but it is telling me it won't install on my machine.

    Mac Pro (late 2013) |OS X 10.12.6 Sierra | 32 GB RAM | Dual AMD FirePro D500 | | MC 2018.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Jan 11 2017 10:43 PM In reply to

    • Bruno M
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    Matt Lyon:
    So I need to run some updates to Win7 to allow it to support the updated method of code signing. But I'm a bit reticent, for fear of "breaking" AVID. Did any of you have to deal with this when upgrading to 10.8.3?

    If I remember correctly, the Microsoft update you need is KB3033929.

    Just a word of warning about this update. Seems there are cases of this install causing Windows 7 to go into an endless reboot situation, rendering your PC useless. Repair is possible, but you really don't want to be doing this just before a job! check out this article...

    http://www.infoworld.com/article/2895906/patch-management/new-kb-3033929-patch-install-fails-at-72-complete-with-errors-80004005-800b0100-80070002-80070005.html

    I remember facing this same problem when I was trying to update my drivers. I chickened out and stayed on 10.5.4, since everything was running fine with this version.

    Matt Lyon:
    it is telling me it won't install on my machine.

    Do you have Windows 7 service pack 1 installed on your system? I've heard that this service pack is required for KB3033929 to install. I've always used this service pack with all my WIn 7 installations.

    Bruno

    HP Z800, HP G3 Studio, SonnetFusion RAID, Mojo DX, Symphony 2018.9, JVC DTV1910 HD tube monitor, HP Dreamcolor, Avid Artist Color [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jan 12 2017 2:08 AM In reply to

    • Matt
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    Bruno M:
    Do you have Windows 7 service pack 1 installed on your system? I've heard that this service pack is required for KB3033929 to install. I've always used this service pack with all my WIn 7 installations.

     

    Thanks Bruno, it turns out the installer I had downloaded was the 32 bit version. The folks at Blackmagic support pointed that out and sent me the link to the 64 bit download. That installer worked fine and I was able to install Desktop Video 10.8.4 (fwiw, I am running SP 1). I hadn't read your word of warning about the Microsoft update, but thankfully it did not brick my machine!

    I didn't get much of a chance to play around on AVID much after installing the driver, so I can't say for sure yet if things are improved. I'll write a follow up after I've been able to test more tomorrow.

     

    Thanks,
    Matt 

     

    Mac Pro (late 2013) |OS X 10.12.6 Sierra | 32 GB RAM | Dual AMD FirePro D500 | | MC 2018.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jan 12 2017 6:05 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    Matt

    Keeep us posted as we have only approved 10.8.3 and havent approved 10.8.4 yet.   I can check with the team that tests but it would be good to know if you encounter any issues.....

    Marianna

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

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  • Fri, Jan 13 2017 9:54 PM In reply to

    • Matt
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    Thanks Marianna, so far I've been working away all day with 10.8.4 and haven't experienced any obvious problems.

     

    In general performance with the decklink mini-monitor feels a little more responsive than with 10.5.4. That being said, there is still clearly more sluggishness with the decklink enabled, versus with the hardware output disabled. It is noticeable especially in trim mode. For example, when single frame rolling or trimming via the keyboard, there is obvious delay between keyboard hits and the UI refreshing, versus the near instantaneous response when in trim mode with the hardware disabled. Same goes for entering and exiting trim mode.

     

    To be fair, this is a $200 product, so maybe this is as good as it will ever get.

    Mac Pro (late 2013) |OS X 10.12.6 Sierra | 32 GB RAM | Dual AMD FirePro D500 | | MC 2018.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jan 20 2017 7:40 PM In reply to

    • Matt
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    A quick update - One thing I've noticed is that when entering trim mode with the decklink enabled, media composer switches the display to "draft mode", and there is no way to change the setting. In old versions of the driver, you had a choice between 10-bit, normal, and draft quality while in trim mode. Avid would remember which setting you had used last, and use that setting the next time trim mode was entered.

    Mac Pro (late 2013) |OS X 10.12.6 Sierra | 32 GB RAM | Dual AMD FirePro D500 | | MC 2018.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jan 23 2017 10:50 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    Matt

    Are you able to upgrade your version of Avid as I mentioned earlier? On 8.5.3 with a usb 3.0 shuttle and DV 10.8.3 I am not experiencing these issues. The shuttle is not even certified yet performance is for me indistinguishable to software only and I get full quality mode in trim, there is no lag and no sync issues on playback even with audio scrub enabled. Your decklink has more bandwidth than my usb 3.0 device and should perform at least as well.

    The only issue I have, which I believe is common to nearly all BM I/O devices (except the DNxIO), is that audio only warbles, unless there is a video signal. There is no way in Avid to use the system sound device or to I/O video when using audio only. The hardware is capable of this as in Resolve I can use the system sound and Shuttle video at the same time. In Avid I have to input a B&B signal and capture it if I want to record clean audio. Annoying but not a deal breaker.

    Regarding drivers both 10.5.4 and 10.8.3 perfom equally well for me on this version of MC, 10.8.3 has some minor DV interface improvements, that's all. Drivers inbetween froze Avid, for some reason. It's a real hit and miss with BM drivers and I'm never sure why. I use, as I've mentioned, the Avid ones for the DNxIO, as they install the connect plugin that works correctly with Fusion, the BM supplied connect plugin requires a seperate launch of the Fusion project.

  • Mon, Jan 23 2017 11:40 AM In reply to

    • David Clarke
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    I have to say I have had problems with the USB Shuttle and Avid.  The performance is also dependant on the USB chipset in the computer.  Renasas is generally the best.  When using the USB shuttle I don't get sluggish performance but I get frequent errors on many machines.  Other Blackmagic PCIe and Thunderbolt devices work for me.

    Laptop - Haswell desktop processor, 16GB RAM, 970m NVidia graphic card. Desktop - 2011 pin Haswell-E processor, 16GB RAM, Thunderbolt, Blackmagic UltraStudio... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jan 23 2017 12:09 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    With respect to the OP, I don't want to drive to off topic, except to say maybe I have been lucky but I have experienced no such issues with the Shuttle.

    I have a consumer higher end multimedia laptop, a Lenovo Z510, with an i7 quad core, a lower end Geforce of 2GB and only 8GB ram/ Win 10. It has an Intel usb 3.0 chipset. 3 things seem to help immensely after copious reading of the BM forums...

    1) A powered good quality USB 3.0 hub (without charging ports).

    2) Forcing a modified Intel driver http://www.win-raid.com/t834f25-USB-Drivers-original-and-modded.html

    3) Using a shorter usb 3.0 cable than supplied by BM. (This I have not needed to do personally)

    I get no errors, performance is on a par, as stated, to software only and I can capture at 1080i50 to 10 bit DNxHD all day long without dropped frames or sync drift. And I am capturing and playing back to a usb 3.0 drive and on a laptop that means a shared bus.

    It is true that the Shuttle is not certified because it is very finicky with usb 3.0 chipsets and operates on the very edge of bandwidth capicity but since it was introduced some years ago things have improved and it seems that in a lot of cases the now much more common Intel usb 3.0 chipset can play well with it.

  • Mon, Jan 23 2017 12:31 PM In reply to

    • David Clarke
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    I agree all those are good options to make it work better.  I did not want anyone reading this thread to think that if they have a Shuttle it should be ok, because in my experience it probably won't (with Avid).  The OP is using a Mini Monitor so that is not his issue.

    Laptop - Haswell desktop processor, 16GB RAM, 970m NVidia graphic card. Desktop - 2011 pin Haswell-E processor, 16GB RAM, Thunderbolt, Blackmagic UltraStudio... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jan 23 2017 12:42 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    I never stated that was his issue, in fact I was implying the reverse, that a more finicky bandwidth limited BM device works well with a higher version of Avid. With respect, whilst it may be true to say in your experience the Shuttle hasn't ever worked well with Avid it maybe misleading to suggest it probably won't work for others. I understand that you are a dealer and system integrator from other threads I have read but it maybe a single instance user like myself has more time to set up his system and fiddle with it. From what I gather reading BM forums most of the issues surrounding the Shuttle are users not carefully following advice and recommendations. There are now too a few no go chipsets, Asmedia for example, and poor bus implementations for example but the Intel usb 3.0 chipset is now far more common and the main issues seem to be inadequate bandwidth implementations and on laptops insufficent bus power, which is why the powered usb hub is highly recommended.

  • Wed, Jan 25 2017 10:27 PM In reply to

    • Matt
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    Re: Decklink mini monitor sluggish responsiveness

    Hi Mercer, I had some downtime between shows and upgraded the system to 8.5.3 and performance is noticeably better. Responsiveness in trim mode is now equal to software only mode. Thanks for the suggestion. MC 8.5 also brings some nice graphic improvements to the timeline wrt trim mode, so that was a nice bonus.

     

    Marianna, I have started to get "consistency check failures" errors popping up, seemingly when I switch to "draft mode" for playback. When I switch back to "normal" or "10 bit" playback, they go away. So I may revert the driver back to 10.8.3 and see if it improves the situation. Footage in question is Sony FS7 AVC Intra 100 mxf (1080P)

    Mac Pro (late 2013) |OS X 10.12.6 Sierra | 32 GB RAM | Dual AMD FirePro D500 | | MC 2018.4 [view my complete system specs]
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