Latest post Fri, Jan 18 2019 10:31 AM by Trensharo. 13 replies.
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  • Sat, Nov 3 2018 12:08 PM

    • butterfly
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    MC/First GPU

    Hi,

    I am not new to AVID. I did HD projects 10 years ago. I am back to video, but now more seriously and with 4K. I need to upgrade my PC first, but it is not clear what components I need. I see that Marianne posted minimum requirements, such as 16 GB RAM and the OS, but what about other components. If I see the AVID certified systems, it is also necessary to have an expensive GPU, such as Nvidia P5000 (http://resources.avid.com/SupportFiles/attach/Windows_Current_CPU_Specifications.pdf). Could I get some more information about the requirements to run AMC/First and later AMC? I want to edit .mov files from Panasonic GH5, 8 and 10 bit, and also high framerates. Later maybe RAW files from BM Pocket Camera.

    Do I really need a big GPU to do this? If not, could you suggest something?

    AND how does AVID think about Ryzen 5 or 7?

    Thanks,

    Rob

     

     

    Media Composer First software only, Windows 10 Home, P5Q Mbo, 16 Gb RAM, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 3.70GHz, nVidia Geforce 200 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Nov 4 2018 7:40 AM In reply to

    • butterfly
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    Re: MC/First GPU

    I accidently found a thread that suggests that AVID only tests systems with a Quadro GPU. This made me beleive (and I guess many others) that you need a quadro gpu. While it seems that a GTX 1060 or even 1050 (info from another forum) will also work. It would be nice if the AVID community moderators would publish a list of GPU's that seem to work with AMC. Or at least make the information about GPU's more transparent. Maybe this thread could be used to publish real life systems that work?

    Media Composer First software only, Windows 10 Home, P5Q Mbo, 16 Gb RAM, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 3.70GHz, nVidia Geforce 200 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Nov 4 2018 9:14 AM In reply to

    Re: MC/First GPU

    When you're looking at the system specifications for Media Composer (or Media Composer First), that is Avid telling you what you need in order to guarantee MC/MCF will work. If you're using the system for critical work that you make money from, and downtime will result in you not getting paid, then pay attention to things like Quadro cards and how much RAM you need.

    If you're a hobbyist and you edit for the love of the game, or if you really like tinkering around with computers, then you can try things outside the system requirements, and as you've seen there are a number of components that will work even though they're not listed.

    Media Composer 2018.12.1 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Envy 17t-j100 Quad Edition laptop, Windows 10 Pro, Intel Core i7 2.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, nVidia GeForce... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Wed, Nov 7 2018 8:06 AM In reply to

    • butterfly
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    Re: MC/First GPU

    OK, thanks!

    So, anybody here is running AMC on a not-certified GPU?

    Media Composer First software only, Windows 10 Home, P5Q Mbo, 16 Gb RAM, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 3.70GHz, nVidia Geforce 200 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Nov 8 2018 5:50 AM In reply to

    • DStone
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    • Moderator: Media Composer Getting Started

    Re: MC/First GPU

    butterfly:

    OK, thanks!

    So, anybody here is running AMC on a not-certified GPU?

    Lots of us (NVidia GTX is the preferred choice after Quadros). Certified systems are required if you want to get paid support from Avid. These are the systems that they test on and have in-house. If you have the money to own a certified system, then you're probably not using MCF.

    The biggest difference is hardware support for OpenGL. On Windows, the Quadro supports OpenGL in hardware. The GTX cards can, but NVidia has disabled this feature in the software driver. On the Mac, GTX cards support OpenGL in hardware.

    It's questionable nowadays how much of MC/MCF actually uses OpenGL. Direct GPU coding is more efficient.

    DIY quad core I7-4790K, 32Gb, NVidia GTX 970 4GB, Win 10 Pro, MC(generally the latest or the one just before), MC 7.x [view my complete system specs]

    Dave S.

  • Thu, Nov 8 2018 2:25 PM In reply to

    • butterfly
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    Re: MC/First GPU

    I was trying to understand what OpenGL is, but more important is what you are suggesting, Dave. Are you discouraging me to get a new GTX, because of possible lack of OpenGL support??

    Are you running AMC on your quad core system? Editing 4k?

    What about Ryzen? AVID does not support AMD, but does that mean that it will not run on a Ryzen system?

    Media Composer First software only, Windows 10 Home, P5Q Mbo, 16 Gb RAM, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 3.70GHz, nVidia Geforce 200 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Nov 9 2018 7:09 PM In reply to

    • DStone
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    • Moderator: Media Composer Getting Started

    Re: MC/First GPU

    Ryzen is great for a lot of software, just not for MC. I am running a GTX 970 and edit 4K. I really should upgrade to a 1080, but I haven't had a pressing need to yet.

    DIY quad core I7-4790K, 32Gb, NVidia GTX 970 4GB, Win 10 Pro, MC(generally the latest or the one just before), MC 7.x [view my complete system specs]

    Dave S.

  • Mon, Dec 3 2018 3:30 AM In reply to

    • Trensharo
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    Re: MC/First GPU

    Avid needs to address this. It makes no sense for Media Composer | First to refuse accelerating effects on GPUs and even iGPUs that other NLEs will happily use. 

    Also, the amount of bloatware and unnecessary (even unused) services I stalled with this free version is also insulting. Background services running at all times even though they're never used. 

    Entire NLE crashed to desktop on my iMac when I imported an H.264 file. 

    Not sure what's going on at Avid, but this seems like a bad solution in search of a problem... along with a laughable amount of restrictions. 

    By the time they get it together, Resolve will have become an objectively legit replacement for Avid in the general sense. It's almost there, already. They are also starting to dominate the grass roots by giving away sigh a genius free version along with a very low priced Studio SKU. People I talk to are referring to it as the Final Cut Pro X for Windows users (implying it should be the go to for people who want to edit video on the platform).

    Avid needs a better grass roots efrort...  and a GUI overhaul. Would not be surprised if  beginners wrote it off simply  due to how ugly this application is. Those things matter, and probably more than it being used in Hollywood to many (if not most) people. It looks and feels like a dinosaur to use. 

  • Mon, Dec 3 2018 9:27 AM In reply to

    • tommix
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    Re: MC/First GPU

    GTX1080 works fine on PC.

  • Sun, Dec 30 2018 2:53 AM In reply to

    • Trensharo
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    Re: MC/First GPU

    You're missing the point.

  • Sun, Dec 30 2018 9:34 AM In reply to

    Re: MC/First GPU

    There are a number of NLE solutions. You don't have to go the MC route if it doesn't suit yur needs. Most MC users go the Avid route for exactly what it does and offers and if thats not what you need then I'd suggest its not the roght tool.

    Try Adobe and see what additional software it installs. Even Resolve throws a whole lot of additional services on the system.

    The GUI is under continual development and we see updates and improvements almost every release. But there are thousands of serious Avid editors who need stability in the GUI so major changes have to be handled carfefully.

    Re the GPU Avid has never relied on the GPU and that has advantages with low spec systems as Avid will use the CPU. SO a high end GPU isn't critical and will only help in certain areas. Avid only locks out GPUs that are known to cause problems (and even that can be overridden if you want to force Aid to use a known problem card) all others are used to the extent Avid will use them. But as I say to limited gain in real world editing (mainly real time playback of effects)

    But use a fast mutlicore CPU with lots of RAM (32GB or 64 or more for 4K) and fast drives (SSD) and Avid flys.

    The background services are in partly to enable the licensing and the Background services which are invaluable for those of us that want to offload background tasks so we can continue to edit.

    My suggestion is give Adobe or Resolve a try and see if the GUI is more to your liking if the GUI is the be all.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

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    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

  • Thu, Jan 17 2019 1:15 PM In reply to

    • Trensharo
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    Re: MC/First GPU

    Okay... there is a lot to "unpack here."

    1.  Adobe Runs Creative Cloud Desktop App and some DRM stuff (Licensing, etc.).  Similar to Avid.  They don't run Background Render Services that Auto-Launch on Boot.

    The statement that Resolve "throws a lot of additional services on the system" is false.  This is trivial to verify.  It add no services to the PC, and the only "services" it does use, are only started when the NLE is running, as a spawned process.  A lot of software does this, not only NLEs, and it's the "preferable" way to do this...  It certainly doesn't use Java, an Application Manager, PACE Licenser, etc.

    2.  The UI of Media Composer hasn't changed in any major or fundamental way in at least a decade.  You are giving Avid far too much credit.  No one said Avid never made any changes to the UI, but the pace of change has been glalcial - and even that's being extremely generous.

    3.  Premiere Pro actually runs far better on lower end systems, so I'm confused as to what Advantage Avid has there.  I can load a 4K project in Premiere Pro, and it will still be using less RAM than Media Composer uses with nothing, at all, open.  Just sitting there on the start screen.  It also uses less CPU than MC, allowing it to run on lower end systems at comparable or better performance.  Reliability of Media Composer also tanks on lower end systems, as it will disappear off the screen randomly when the system faces high memory pressure, etc. (no error message given, NLE just disappears).  This has never happened with Premiere Pro, even on systems with 8GB RAM and iGPUs with Shared Memory (to me, at least).

    4.  My main machine is good (all SSD storage, i7, 32GB RAM, 8GB GPUs, etc.), but I don't like junk services on it... especially when using something just to learn it.  It really drives me batty, as I'm really on top of system maintenance, and I don't want this stuff cutting into my Render Resources, etc...

    I'm not referring to myself only, however, but also to people who may not have access to hardware as good, but may still want to start training themselves for this... people in countries that are less rich, for example.  They have dreams and aspirations, too, and often can't just run out and get a new $2,000 Desktop/Laptop.

    Do you realize that it wasn't until relatively recently that a MacBook Pro could have more than 16GB RAM?

    5.  A lot of the background services that are run are not used - at all - in Media Composer | First.  It doesn't do Backgorund Rendering, Transcoding, Importing, etc.  Maybe I mistakenly posted in a thread in the wrong forum, though...

    Throw enough hardware at any application and it flies.  That doesn't really inform on anything.  That just says that the application needs a lot of resources to perform well.

    6.  It's going to be hard to gain new users (who aren't using this NLE out of necessity) if the only people who matter are legacy users with deep pockets.  You have to think beyond that.  MCF is not marketed towards Professional Hollywood and Broadcast editors.  Those people are already on MCU, or using whatever system their entity mandates.  The types of people MCF is being marketed to (going by what Avid has on their websites, and what they have said at conferences, etc.) are going to have a lot of the same questions, concerns, or qualms with the software that are mentioned here...

    A lot of students at the University here absolutey abhor using Avid due to the performance and UI/UX, so they will jump on the opportunity to ditch it or push for another NLE if given the chance.  Avid needs to work to change that perception, or improve the user experience - more... because what they are doing is not enough given the molasses pace that it is improving at.

    Many of those people ARE going to Adobe or Resolve.  The whole point of MCF is to try to get them to go to Avid instead... and hopefully convert into paying customers.  Really... a curious stance on your part.

    And I'll repeat... no where did anyone insinuate that Avid has never improved anything, or isn't.  The issue isn't what they aren't doing.  The issue is the glacial pace at which they move...

    If people didn't care, they wouldn't waste their time to come here and voice their thoughts.  Sending them off to Adobe or Blackmagic Design is not necessarily conducive to the discussion - though it seems you aren't really interested in having one, anyways.

  • Thu, Jan 17 2019 2:57 PM In reply to

    Re: MC/First GPU

    Avid did a major UI re-arrangement with Version 8.5 and even that caused waves with the memory muscle of long term editors. I can't recount how many other UI changes have caused feathers to be ruffled over ther years.

    While some may relish a completely new UI every other version some of us have to earn our living from our NLE systems and UI changes are like re arrnaging all the tools in your work van. Lots of lost time finding things.

    So changes have to be gradule and carefully considered.

    And thats only considering single use or small operations. Many of the clients I work with have hundreds of edit seats and changes to the UI and functionality throws a massive spanner in the works. Some of those clients are still on 8.5.3 because its complex to upgrade and re-train all the staff in one hit.

    People want to learn Avid because a lot of big operations and Broadcasters do. And many still do becuase you can open a 10years old Avid project if you need to. Try that on Premiere.

    So it makes sense to learn and have a skill that you can use to get a job if thats your route.

    That said Premiere is making gains on MC in the larger facilities (especially the newer ones) and the arguments for learning on Avid are slipping away.

    Personally I think MCF has just complicated things. The lack of ability (still) to move to MC regualr with your MCF projects is a real flaw. 

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

    -

    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

  • Fri, Jan 18 2019 10:31 AM In reply to

    • Trensharo
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    • Joined on Tue, Nov 27 2018
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    Re: MC/First GPU

    Curious choice of words...

    The latest version of Media Composer looks much the same as Media Composer 5.5.  You have more color scheme options, etc. but the core UI/UX is identical.

    Nothing that I'd consider a "revamp" or a "major UI rearrangement" has happened since then. Features have been added, and therefore something has to be done with the UI to provide access to/make room for them (that is obvious), but there hasn't been a "major UI rearrangement" in a very long time.  8.5 certainly doesn't qualify.

    It's also not about "a UI revamp every other version."  What major professional software package does this, which would lead anyone to expect this type of stupidity?  I'm talking about obvious quality of life changes like proper window docking, which can be provided as an option so that the computer illiterate guys/gals in Holywood/Broadcast don't have to cry about being forced to use it.

    You are really reading something different than I wrote, and presenting it as if I have stated it that way, which is beyond disingenuous - considering you've done it multiple times, thus far.  No one is asking for a major UI revamp every other version.  No one even insinuated such a thing, so I'm not sure why you're telling me what "would be nice," as if I've asked for it.

    I'm talking about long-overdue QoL changes like proper window docking - something a lot of Pro MC editors have been asking for for a while (and it's always mentioned at NAB when they give their presentations, etc.).

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