Latest post Mon, Nov 12 2018 11:38 AM by Pat Horridge. 13 replies.
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  • Sat, Nov 10 2018 3:40 PM

    • scocklin
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    3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    I have around 300 3/4 inch UMATIC tapes that where recorded between 35 to 40 years ago.  I've set up a 3/4 inch Sony deck with good heads along with a BVT 800 TBC.  I'm feeding the composite video from the TBC through a Comp to SDI converter and into my Avid Mojo, I'm also feeding sync from the TBC into REF sync in the Mojo.  Surprisingly after 40 years most of the videos look like I shot them yesterday.  

    According to The Library of Congress, archive capture could be 8 bit but they highly recommend capturing in 10 bit.  The only 10 bit resolution in the capture tool I see is 1:1 10b MXF, is there another 10 bit resolution less than 1:1 that I’m not seeing?

     

    Thanks

     

     

     

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  • Sat, Nov 10 2018 4:56 PM In reply to

    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    Any DNx resolution with an x on the end is 10 bit. But you mention Archive and DNx Prores etc aren't considered archive formats and what wrapper will they be in?

    JPEG2000 is a good choice at 2:1 its lossless but FFV1 in MKV is also very popular a nd open choice. Not possible directly i n Avid sadley but you can do it as 2 steps.

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  • Sat, Nov 10 2018 5:11 PM In reply to

    • scocklin
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    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    Thanks Pat, DNx rez in not a choice in a NTSC 30i 720x486 capture,  J2k NTSCi 29.97 MXF is a choice but is it 10 bit?

     

    Steve

    HP Z800 2x 3.46GHz Hex Core X5690, 48GB Ram, Windows 10, Samsung SSD 850 Pro 512GB, Avid Mojo DX, Nvidia Quadro K4000, GTX 1080 FTW, DeckLink SDI 4K,... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Nov 10 2018 5:39 PM In reply to

    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    Well there is some debate on the merit of HD digital capture of SD analogue content....

    But I'd do a test capture and use Media info to look at the resultant file. Some searches seem to indicate the JPG2K from Avid should be 10  bit.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Sat, Nov 10 2018 6:03 PM In reply to

    • Lukas Boeck
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    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    otherwise you could capture in 10bit 1:1 mxf

    and then transcode to 12bit DNxHR HQ.

    should be about 6 times smaller than 1:1.

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  • Sat, Nov 10 2018 6:35 PM In reply to

    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    Its not reccomended to use Propriotory codecs for long term archive. Hence avoiding DNx ProRes etc.

    JPEG2K is licensed but has good support.

    Personally I'd capture at 10bit uncompressed and then use FFMPEG to convert to FFV1 in an MKV wrapper.

    Just ashame Avid can't so anything with it like that.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Sat, Nov 10 2018 6:42 PM In reply to

    • scocklin
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    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    Thanks Pat, Media Info did show the bit depth at 10 bits for J2K JPEG 2000.  

    National Archives recomends;

    p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 13.0px Helvetica} p.p2 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica} p.p3 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 11.0px Helvetica} span.s1 {font: 11.0px Helvetica} span.s2 {font: 8.0px Helvetica}

    Recommended delivery specification, NTSC/525 line

    Method: Playback into encoder, wrap output as file

    Wrapper: .mov (QuickTime) or .avi5

    Video:

    Video Compression: Uncompressed

    Frame Size: Standard Definition: 720x4866

    Frame Size: High Definition: Native

    Aspect Ratio: Native: 4:3 for SD; 16:9 for HD

    Bit Depth: 10-bit

    Color Space: YCbCr

    Chroma subsampling: 4:2:2

    Interlaced/Progressive: Native

    Frame Rate: Native, 30 or 29.97

     

    I'm not sure if JPEG 2000 is conpressed or uncompressed, everything else seems to be correct compaired to their specs.

     

    Looked up JP2000 it seems to be a 2:1 compression,  so I might go with 1:1 10b, it takes up more room on the drive but seems to conforms to the Archive standards.  Final videos will goto LTO tape.

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  • Sat, Nov 10 2018 7:53 PM In reply to

    • Lukas Boeck
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    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    LTO will do lossless compression with these 1:1 files.

     

    you can try an turn on windows folder compression on your end if necessary.

    I've even done it with Avid MediaFiles folders after editing.

     

     

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  • Sat, Nov 10 2018 8:11 PM In reply to

    • scocklin
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    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    Right now I have dedicated drives for these files, one for archive and one for redundency, so I'm not worried about saving space. This looks like it is turning out to be my winter project this year. Hopefully the Sony 3/4 inch deck and TBC will last. Thanks for the advice.

    Steve

    HP Z800 2x 3.46GHz Hex Core X5690, 48GB Ram, Windows 10, Samsung SSD 850 Pro 512GB, Avid Mojo DX, Nvidia Quadro K4000, GTX 1080 FTW, DeckLink SDI 4K,... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Nov 11 2018 4:23 AM In reply to

    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    I am not crazy about the BVT 800 TBC, which I've used a few tines. I think you can get better/best results upfront with a better signal path from the right 3/4" VTR.

    http://www.broadcaststore.com/pdf/model/14938/sony_vo-9800.pdf

    I recall that only certain 3/4" VTRs provided RF dub outputs (see above link). Panasonic and other TBCs made that "component-like" RF DUB signal available as inputs.Then look for the gear that also provides component output.

    This all gets a little obsessive, but for the very best quality color, you could probably set up a signal path that ends in an Avid recorded at 1:1. From there you do anything.

    If different gear is still an option for you, I would suggest picking some brains here, at Creative Cow*. Avid L2 Yahoo Group, and DVinfo.net for top notch archiving solutions. Dropouts are killers as are TBC compensation hits.

    *for Example:

    https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/21/861782

    https://get.google.com/albumarchive/114948310048171597379/album/AF1QipO92Wbetlojej2GTzFGIqmXE1Pnsg5Uj1DE8qS1

     

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  • Sun, Nov 11 2018 5:43 PM In reply to

    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    I'd take a little caution with any spec that is still reccomending .mov as a wrapper. With Apples EOL for QT and it being dropped by many apps moving forward its not a smart choice.

    JPEG2K is lossless at 2:1 so the quality is as good as uncompressed but half the file sie.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

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    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


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  • Sun, Nov 11 2018 8:23 PM In reply to

    • Fazz Powell
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    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    Considering 3/4 is 4:1:1 and 8 bit, isn't 10bit overkill? More disc space to be used than needed. (I saw the 10 bit comment, but it doesn't buy you anything.) Happy digitizing.

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  • Sun, Nov 11 2018 8:50 PM In reply to

    • scocklin
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    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    Fazz Powell:

    Considering 3/4 is 4:1:1 and 8 bit, isn't 10bit overkill? More disc space to be used than needed. (I saw the 10 bit comment, but it doesn't buy you anything.) Happy digitizing.

    That was what I thought too until I started researching the subject, the following is a excerpt from the Library of Congress  Recommendations for Interim-Master for Video Preservation 20111001

    The visual difference between 10-bit and much smaller 8-bit files may be subtle, especially in low grade formats such as VHS, UMatic and Betamax. Using 10 bits over 8 bits does not increase the range of information that can be captured (between 5 and 110 IRE). It does, however, increase the granularity, the level of details, between the range that is captured, with significant reduction in banding, providing smooth transitions within each chrominance or luminance channel between colors and black and white. It is worth restating that in preservation, any loss of information, especially actual instead of theoretical, is unacceptable. Low grade or low quality source material may lack in resolution, especially vertical color resolution, and may lack the full range of luminance and color. Capturing the finer detail and subtle gradations using 10-bit is therefore more important given the inherent limitations of these formats

     

     

    HP Z800 2x 3.46GHz Hex Core X5690, 48GB Ram, Windows 10, Samsung SSD 850 Pro 512GB, Avid Mojo DX, Nvidia Quadro K4000, GTX 1080 FTW, DeckLink SDI 4K,... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Nov 12 2018 11:38 AM In reply to

    Re: 3/4 inch UMATIC Capture/Transfer Archive question?

    Fazz Powell:

    Considering 3/4 is 4:1:1 and 8 bit, isn't 10bit overkill? More disc space to be used than needed. (I saw the 10 bit comment, but it doesn't buy you anything.) Happy digitizing.

    Sorry but 3/4" isn't any digital value. Its analogue. You convert it to digital when you capture.

    its an analogue tape format. Not a digital one. The limitations of the TBC may have some baring.

    An external 10bit TBC that could take the dub signal would be better and possibly a composite to digital convertor at 10bit would work better as well.

     

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


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