Latest post Sun, Feb 17 2019 9:21 PM by DStone. 18 replies.
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  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 11:41 AM

    Tips for reducing echo

    Hi,

    I've been filming pieces-to-camera in my apartment, which is near-studio conditions (a shoe factory conversion), and because the space is large there is a certain amount of echo.  Tbf, it's not all that bad, though I would like to tweak.  Having modified the clip so as 2 mono tracks are now on the same track (A3), I have placed  the EQ3-7 Band plug-in on the first available panel (is panel the correct term?) and used it primarily to tail-off at both top- and bottom-end frequencies, and with a little adjustments have made very minor improvements within the middling frequencies.  The echo still remains and wondered if there was something else to place onto the next available panel?  Also, as a general rule, how is audio-workflow/output affected by the ordering of plug-ins on the panels (I have five available)?

    DC

    Asus N55SF Notebook running Windows 10 Home Processor: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-2670QM CPU @ 2.20GHz 2.20GHz Installed memory (RAM): 8.00 GB System type... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 2:52 PM In reply to

    • DStone
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    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    Echo is really a reverb problem, and not one you can easily get rid of using the audio tools. There are a couple of external tools you can use (Spectralayers, formerly by Sony, now by Magix) and Izotope RX7 standard or advanced. RX7 is the easier one to use. Standard has a built in de-reverb module. Advanced has one dedicated to dialog.

    If you have something like Sound Forge (or even Audacity), there is also one technique that way help.

    Import the sample audio and lay it on the timeline. Create a new track. Copy the audio into that track, and then invert the audio on that track. Reduce the volume of the inverted track by 50% (play around with this) and mix it with the original track. Raise the volume of the mixdown to the level of the original. The echo should be noticeably reduced.

    What this procedure does is to reduce the level of the softer sections (the reverb) to hopefully less distracting levels. You may have to repeat this a couple of times using the mixdown track.

    At some point though, it all becomes garbled and artifcated. There really is a point beyond which you can't do much without dedicated tools.

    DIY quad core I7-4790K, 32Gb, NVidia GTX 970 4GB, Win 10 Pro, MC(generally the latest or the one just before), MC 7.x [view my complete system specs]

    Dave S.

  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 4:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    Blimey, I need to re-read that. Thank you, though.

    Asus N55SF Notebook running Windows 10 Home Processor: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-2670QM CPU @ 2.20GHz 2.20GHz Installed memory (RAM): 8.00 GB System type... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 5:11 PM In reply to

    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    How does workflow re: audio plug-ins work (second part of original post)?

    Asus N55SF Notebook running Windows 10 Home Processor: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-2670QM CPU @ 2.20GHz 2.20GHz Installed memory (RAM): 8.00 GB System type... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 5:45 PM In reply to

    • Tom Pearson
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    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    There is a very good plugin from Plugin alliance called "De-verb" Not to be confused with D-verb by AVID  you can control room echo very well. It looks at the sound print and reads the sound shading then gives you 2 knobs width and amplitude . Super easy to use and it is not expensive  and it works just  like any other plug in and I would put it first in the chain as to eliminate the other plug in work load... Then again if the extra verb is getting you a good sound you can always play around with it 

     https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/spl_de-verb_plus.html

    Mac Pro 3.5 gig 6 core 64 gig ram D700 radons with ssd os drive with a 20 tb raid, Artist Mix and Artist color Artist control [view my complete system specs]

    Tom Pearson

    Director/Writer Big Picture Films

    Sound Designer/Sound Editor Hollywood Sounds

    WWLD

  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 6:14 PM In reply to

    • DStone
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    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    Tom Pearson:
    There is a very good plugin from Plugin alliance called "De-verb"...
    And another good thing to look at; it has a free trial as well. Developing a good tool set is always a useful endeavor.

    DIY quad core I7-4790K, 32Gb, NVidia GTX 970 4GB, Win 10 Pro, MC(generally the latest or the one just before), MC 7.x [view my complete system specs]

    Dave S.

  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 6:24 PM In reply to

    • Tom Pearson
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    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    I have been using De -Verb for a while now it really works well and its only like 30 bucks

    Mac Pro 3.5 gig 6 core 64 gig ram D700 radons with ssd os drive with a 20 tb raid, Artist Mix and Artist color Artist control [view my complete system specs]

    Tom Pearson

    Director/Writer Big Picture Films

    Sound Designer/Sound Editor Hollywood Sounds

    WWLD

  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 6:31 PM In reply to

    • DStone
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    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    Supermandan1:
    How does workflow re: audio plug-ins work (second part of original post)?
    If you want to try and do this completely from within MC, you duplicate the audio track, add an AudioSuite invert effect to the new track, reduce the volume, and mixdown. I think that you can actually do this on 1 track with the AudioSuite Duplicate effect and multiple plugin tracks, but I'm not sure and I can't find any reference for what that effect actually does.

    DIY quad core I7-4790K, 32Gb, NVidia GTX 970 4GB, Win 10 Pro, MC(generally the latest or the one just before), MC 7.x [view my complete system specs]

    Dave S.

  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 8:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    Hi David - sorry, I think I meant something else with the question.  On the Audio Mixer there are 5 effects buttons, arranged vertically. What is the workflow, from top to bottom? Also, in this instance, would the recommended De-Verb be best placed before the EQ3-7 Band (which I use to tail off top- and bottom-end frequencies)? Finally, and this may sound a silly one, although I wish to get a proper handle on it: on the EQ3-7 Band (and I should imagine all audio FX do this) there is an adjuster for 'In' and another for 'out'. They both appear to affect the "bottom line" (to use an accountant's analogy) of dB, but what is the difference? How should I approach how to tweak either one? Thank you, DC

    Asus N55SF Notebook running Windows 10 Home Processor: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-2670QM CPU @ 2.20GHz 2.20GHz Installed memory (RAM): 8.00 GB System type... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 8:54 PM In reply to

    • DStone
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    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    I do all of my audio work in a dedicated DAW. But I'm pretty certain it's top down.

    DIY quad core I7-4790K, 32Gb, NVidia GTX 970 4GB, Win 10 Pro, MC(generally the latest or the one just before), MC 7.x [view my complete system specs]

    Dave S.

  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 9:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    Thank you. And...

    ...on the EQ3-7 Band (and I should imagine all audio FX do this) there is an adjuster for 'In' and another for 'out'. They both appear to affect the "bottom line" (to use an accountant's analogy) of dB, but what is the difference? How should I approach how to tweak either one? Thank you, DC

    Asus N55SF Notebook running Windows 10 Home Processor: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-2670QM CPU @ 2.20GHz 2.20GHz Installed memory (RAM): 8.00 GB System type... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 13 2019 9:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    Hi Tom,

    I've just added the De-Verb on the 14 day trial. It's installed, shows up in MC, I've added to the top FX button (with nothing else there for now) - done it three times and MC has crashed. Any advice? DC

    Asus N55SF Notebook running Windows 10 Home Processor: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-2670QM CPU @ 2.20GHz 2.20GHz Installed memory (RAM): 8.00 GB System type... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 1:57 AM In reply to

    • DStone
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    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    These are gain controls for the input source (the dry signal) and the output (the wet signal). In affects the signal before processing, Out affects the signal after processing.

    DIY quad core I7-4790K, 32Gb, NVidia GTX 970 4GB, Win 10 Pro, MC(generally the latest or the one just before), MC 7.x [view my complete system specs]

    Dave S.

  • Thu, Feb 14 2019 10:15 AM In reply to

    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    Hi David, Thank you again. I can kinda gather what you're saying, though was hoping you could elaborate further (sorry to be pedantic, just really want to get a full handle on this).  For instance, does, say, a lesser 'in' thus bring in the desired signal with less noise, thus finally the 'out' is cleaner? I dunno, that sort of thing. What is the ideal balance, particularly if the original sound goes through two or three plug-ins, avoiding as much degeneracy in the workflow as possible? DC

    Asus N55SF Notebook running Windows 10 Home Processor: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-2670QM CPU @ 2.20GHz 2.20GHz Installed memory (RAM): 8.00 GB System type... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 15 2019 8:33 PM In reply to

    • DStone
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    Re: Tips for reducing echo

    These are gain (volume) controls. Mostly you'd use the input to bring the overall signal down if it's clipping or up if the signal is too low. Out does the same for the processed signal (using EQ you can raise or lower the signal within the frequencies, so it's possible to overdrive or underdrive the final output).

    Remember that this is overall signal. Raising the gain raises the noise along with everything else.

    The ideal balance is what it sounds like when you're done. There's no hard and fast rules, outside of avoid clipping and artifacts whenever possible.

    DIY quad core I7-4790K, 32Gb, NVidia GTX 970 4GB, Win 10 Pro, MC(generally the latest or the one just before), MC 7.x [view my complete system specs]

    Dave S.

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