Latest post Fri, Feb 6 2009 12:04 AM by MichaelP. 8 replies.
Page 1 of 1 (9 items)
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Wed, Oct 1 2008 3:06 PM

    New Red Workflow on MC3.05 - My experience

    I have just finished doing test on Red workflow, following precisely what is written in the stepbystep_red_sec.pdf available at www.avid.com/red/

    In short, there seem to be 3 ways of dealing with Red files. I tried all 3 versions and here are my findings:

    1. Red Alert 3.50  &  Metacheater 1.4: I imported into metacheater the QT proxy that I wanted via Red Alert and then without Red Alert, and automatically metacheater produced an .ale that Aid had no problem reading. The only problem I found was that there is no way to batch import numerous proxys over numerous folders which means that each import has its own ale. Rather laborious.

    2. Redcine 3.12: Errrrrrr, this combustion look alike app that seems far more complex than it is. Using the TestXSLT-3.1, I was unable to produce an ale from the xml that the avid could read. The avid just ignored the import. I checked the xml from the metacheater with that of redcine and found that the tabs formatting was not the same. Even when I changed a couple of tabs, it still did not work.

    3. Redrushes 3.12: Simple batch import function (very useful) with a rather confusing proxy creation process, that only wants to save proxy files to the desktop (strange). (All this red stuff looks great but it not very ergonomic in my opinion). The ale was created and avid opened it fine except that the tape name and clip name had strange characters infront of each entry. In short, the subsequent automatic relink to the media via edl was not possible.

    Using the metacheater ale rushes and a simple cut sequence from the import, Edl Manager produced coherent Red16 edls.

    Using XLM export in filmscribe, I transcoded the filmscribe xlm via TestXSLT-3.1 and opened the result in redcine, only for redcine to crash out immediately. This was repeated many times. The xml look intact at a first glance.

    Using a CMX 3600 edl with Monkey Extract 1.026, I was simply able to render a DPX output. I would not want to do a feature film this way as it is rather long. Actually everything Red is rather long. To import 1 minute of QT proxy to DNXHD36 take abot 5 min on a mac 2.66ghz 10.4.11.

    Bare in mind that Monkey Extract gets round the the CMX 3 figure tape name problem by finding potential file names and then using the timecode encoded in each file to find which is the right file to use. Therefore, one must not have duplicating timecodes with similar file names

    In short, Metacheater is the most reliable way to go for me but I have yet to find a way to conform the files via an edl. Anyone know what machines can read Red16 Edls?

  • Wed, Oct 1 2008 3:41 PM In reply to

    • POSTDIGITAL
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Nashville
    • Posts 159
    • Points 1,945

    Re: New Red Workflow on MC3.05 - My experience

    Thanks for that info.

    I'm starting a Red project in Avid today and am unsure of what project settings to use.

    The footage was shot 24fps with Red One.

    Should I ingest and edit in a 24fps project or a 59.94 project?

    Media Composer w/Symphony Option v8.5 / Nitris DX / 12-core 3.33 MacPro 5,1 / 32GB RAM / OS v10.10.5 / QT Pro v7.6.6 + QT v10 / Internal 6TB SATA RAID... [view my complete system specs]

    Altering the universe - one pixel at a time.

  • Wed, Oct 1 2008 4:01 PM In reply to

    Re: New Red Workflow on MC3.05 - My experience

    In my opinion import the 24FPS as an 1080 24p HD projects (gets round some nasty SD pull-down questions). The rest is rather straight forward if you avoid the RED apps. I am in PAL land so I cannot tell you what to do with 59.94.

  • Thu, Oct 2 2008 4:44 PM In reply to

    Re: New Red Workflow on MC3.05 - My experience

    Short answer, in my opinion, if you are going to TV, 59.94. Film, 24. Are you printing frames or going to tape? That's the call usually.

     

    Don't trust the internet...

  • Tue, Oct 28 2008 9:12 PM In reply to

    • MichaelP
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Boston
    • Posts 2,444
    • Points 30,415
    • Avid Certified Instructors - Video
      Avid Employee
      Moderator: Film
      Moderator: MetaFuze

    Re: New Red Workflow on MC3.05 - My experience

     Chris -

    Great feedback on an ever changing RED workflow. Some responses to your issues:

    1. Red Alert 3.50  &  Metacheater 1.4: I imported into metacheater the QT proxy that I wanted via Red Alert and then without Red Alert, and automatically metacheater produced an .ale that Aid had no problem reading. The only problem I found was that there is no way to batch import numerous proxys over numerous folders which means that each import has its own ale. Rather laborious.

    [mep] RED Alert is really a one file at a time application. I wouldn't even go there for dailies work.

    2. Redcine 3.12: Errrrrrr, this combustion look alike app that seems far more complex than it is. Using the TestXSLT-3.1, I was unable to produce an ale from the xml that the avid could read. The avid just ignored the import. I checked the xml from the metacheater with that of redcine and found that the tabs formatting was not the same. Even when I changed a couple of tabs, it still did not work.

    [mep] There were some issues with the resulting file. I beleive the translator online has been updated. Check it out and let me know.

    3. Redrushes 3.12: Simple batch import function (very useful) with a rather confusing proxy creation process, that only wants to save proxy files to the desktop (strange). (All this red stuff looks great but it not very ergonomic in my opinion). The ale was created and avid opened it fine except that the tape name and clip name had strange characters infront of each entry. In short, the subsequent automatic relink to the media via edl was not possible.

    [mep] There is a bug in REDrushes in that it does not want a folder whose name has a space in it. So "DailiesFolder" instead of "Dailies Folder" I have never seen the extra character issue. Please send a sample file if you have one.

     

    Michael

    24p.com

  • Thu, Oct 30 2008 9:30 AM In reply to

    Re: New Red Workflow on MC3.05 - My experience

    I started a Red feature film using the metacheater workflow & DNXHD36 & ... for the moment all is well.

    The new redrushes version solves my strange character problem but contrary to metacheater it can only have tape names with 4 characters. As the first 4 characters of a red file a the camera that makes for an awful lot of A001 tape entries. Why not tell Red to add the possibility to make the file name, the tape name or tell metacheater to add a multiple file entry. Personally, I prefer metacheater. It is very efficient, clear & reliable

  • Thu, Oct 30 2008 11:14 AM In reply to

    • MichaelP
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Boston
    • Posts 2,444
    • Points 30,415
    • Avid Certified Instructors - Video
      Avid Employee
      Moderator: Film
      Moderator: MetaFuze

    Re: New Red Workflow on MC3.05 - My experience

    There is a list of feature requests to RED for REDrushes, so hopefully they will be adding it to the next release. Source ID has been a changing target over the past several months as manufaturers look to be consistent in their support. While Avid was first to support 16 Characters in a modified CMX EDL, it took a while for other tools to catch up. Now that they have- and the issues with unique identification of the files/timecode, 16 characters is the best way to go.

     

    But - the longer file names do exist in the lab/cam roll columns so that EDL/XML can be generated from there using the longer filename as source. Having a bunch of A001 is more akin to tape based workflows where you 24 hours of timecode reserved for that ID. The only issue here, is that poor on set fikle naming can cause duplicate file names and is out of the control of post.

     

    Michael

    24p.com

  • Thu, Feb 5 2009 11:07 PM In reply to

    • mrpinknn
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Jan 7 2009
    • Posts 2
    • Points 30

    Re: New Red Workflow on MC3.05 - My experience

    2. Redcine 3.12: Errrrrrr, this combustion look alike app that seems far more complex than it is. Using the TestXSLT-3.1, I was unable to produce an ale from the xml that the avid could read. The avid just ignored the import. I checked the xml from the metacheater with that of redcine and found that the tabs formatting was not the same. Even when I changed a couple of tabs, it still did not work. [mep] There were some issues with the resulting file. I beleive the translator online has been updated. Check it out and let me know.

     

    Just an update.  I am having the same issue.  From RedCine XML to TestXSLT using the most recent avid xsl file ( downloaded today 2-4-2009) and my ALE doesn't work.  My ALE, when compared to the ALE from redrushes is missing information.  What now?  Thanks

    Filed under: , , , ,
  • Fri, Feb 6 2009 12:04 AM In reply to

    • MichaelP
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Boston
    • Posts 2,444
    • Points 30,415
    • Avid Certified Instructors - Video
      Avid Employee
      Moderator: Film
      Moderator: MetaFuze

    Re: New Red Workflow on MC3.05 - My experience

    What version of REDCINE are you using? They have made chamges to the XML with the latest release for which we will be updating the XSL files here soon. In the meantime, send me a zipped version of the XML from REDCINE and I can give it a try.

    michael(_)phillips(at)avid(dot)com

    Michael

    24p.com

Page 1 of 1 (9 items)

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller