Latest post Fri, Feb 26 2010 11:45 PM by Jekyl1. 9 replies.
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  • Tue, May 26 2009 7:46 PM

    • johnrkennedy
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    Editing non-drop frame footage in a drop frame sequence and show

    I just had a video crew come back from Canada and the shooter used Non-Drop Frame timecode on all the tapes(He was new, we've never used him before).  About 20 DVCPROHD tapes of interviews and B-Roll.

    We have previous shot footage we'll use that's Drop-Frame.

    The show will be edited and finished in Drop-Frame and it will be delivered to the network in Drop-Frame too.

    Is there anything I need to worry about when combining all the non-drop and drop frame footage on a drop frame sequence?  Do you think there will be any problems in the online process?

    Thanks
    John Kennedy

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  • Tue, May 26 2009 8:11 PM In reply to

    Re: Editing non-drop frame footage in a drop frame sequence and show

    No problem.  DF vs NDF is really just a frame counting convention.  No frames are actually dropped in DF, it's just a way of counting frames so that your show times out correctly. you can mix the two all day long an nothing bad will happen.

    To quote wikipedia-

     

    Drop frame timecode dates to a compromise invented when color NTSC video was invented. The NTSC re-designers wanted to retain compatibility with existing monochrome TVs. However, broadcasting color took 0.03 seconds every second to transmit the color information in the signal, or 3.58sec per hour. Technically, the 3.58 MHz (actually 315/88 MHz = 3.57954545 MHz) color subcarrier would absorb common-phase noise from the harmonics of the line scan frequency. Rather than adjusting the audio or chroma subcarriers, they adjusted everything else, including the frame rate, which was set to 30×1.000/1.001 Hz.

    This meant that an "hour of timecode" at a nominal frame rate of 30 frame/s was longer than an hour of wall-clock time by 3.59 seconds, leading to an error of almost a minute and a half over a day. This caused people to make unnecessary mistakes in broadcasting studios and precious advertising dollars could be lost.

    To correct this, drop frame SMPTE timecode was invented. In spite of what the name implies, NO video frames are dropped (skipped) using drop-frame timecode. What's actually being dropped are some of the timecode "labels". In order to make an hour of timecode match an hour on the clock, drop-frame timecode drops frame numbers 0 and 1 of the first second of every minute, and includes them when the number of minutes is divisible by ten. This achieves an "easy-to-track" drop frame rate of 18 frames each ten minutes (18,000 frames @ 30frame/s) and almost perfectly compensates for the difference in rate, leaving a residual timing error of roughly 86.4 milliseconds per day, an error of only 1.0 ppm.

    i.e. - Drop frame TC drops two frames every minute, except every tenth minute, achieving 29.97frame/s.

    Drop frame is usually represented with a semi-colon (;) whereas non-drop is represented with a colon (:)

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  • Tue, May 26 2009 8:12 PM In reply to

    • Sco
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    Re: Editing non-drop frame footage in a drop frame sequence and show

    nope, you will have no problem.   DF & NDF are just different timecode, you can mix and match as you please

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  • Tue, May 26 2009 9:02 PM In reply to

    Re: Editing non-drop frame footage in a drop frame sequence and show

    mr_difficult:

    No problem.  DF vs NDF is really just a frame counting convention.  No frames are actually dropped in DF, it's just a way of counting frames so that your show times out correctly. you can mix the two all day long an nothing bad will happen.

    100% agreed. I do it every day without any issues. Master sequences are drop frame, sources are a mix of drop and non-drop.

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  • Tue, May 26 2009 9:32 PM In reply to

    • johnrkennedy
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    Re: Editing non-drop frame footage in a drop frame sequence and show

    Thanks everyone, I thought that I would be ok, but wanted to double and triple check before it got really messy.
    Thank you.

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  • Tue, May 26 2009 9:47 PM In reply to

    • Sylvain P
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    Re: Editing non-drop frame footage in a drop frame sequence and show

    The only issue you could have is if you edit in Non-Drop, then deliver your footage like that saying the duration is 53min. During the broadcasting, the last seconds would be cut because the footage would be longer than 53min.

     

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    Sylvain Primeau

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  • Tue, May 26 2009 9:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Editing non-drop frame footage in a drop frame sequence and show

    To echo the others and Sylvain, footage does not matter whether it is DF or NDF.  The only thing that does matter is your Sequence and Master, if delivering for broadcast.  

     

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  • Tue, May 26 2009 10:16 PM In reply to

    • johnrkennedy
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    Re: Editing non-drop frame footage in a drop frame sequence and show

    We are delivering for broadcast.  The master sequence will be offlined and onlined Drop-Frame.  So we'll be fine.

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  • Tue, May 26 2009 10:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Editing non-drop frame footage in a drop frame sequence and show

    And should you wind up with any sequences that turn out to be non-drop frame, you can easily change them to drop frame by right clicking on the record window and "get sequence info".

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    Larry Rubin

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  • Fri, Feb 26 2010 11:45 PM In reply to

    • Jekyl1
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    Re: Editing non-drop frame footage in a drop frame sequence and show

    Hey there, I know this is almost a year after this topic was posted, but still...

     

    In terms of mixing NDF and DF footage, the above posters are correct. However, if you are doing a multicam shoot and you will be grouping your footage, you could run into issues.

     

    I work on a show where I have to multigroup up to 5 different cameras. None of the cams are sunk together and they are not always shooting the same thing (reality tv), so there's no easy to way to group.  In these situations, I must multigroup and Avid can't multigroup NDF and DF footage together. At least not that I have been able to figure out.

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