Latest post Wed, Dec 2 2009 10:07 PM by lmerino. 12 replies.
Page 1 of 1 (13 items)
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Tue, Dec 1 2009 2:55 AM

    • alleycat
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Jan 4 2007
    • Posts 48
    • Points 720

    MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    Hi all,

    Silly question perhaps but some guidance would be greatly appreciated.

    I've got some footage that was shot on a Canon 5D Mark II camera, which shoots 1920x1080 QT H.264 at 1080p 30 fps.

    Now my final output is set for DVD NTSC which will play on a plasma screen for an event, as well as an output for the web.

    Should I be importing my footage into a 29.97 SD project straight off or sticking to a 1080p 30 project and simply downconverting to SD at the final stage?

    I've been researching the topic a bit and came across some threads which spoke of convert the H.264 clips to ProRes at 30fps... Any specific reason to do that or is simply importing and transcoding to DNxHD145 good enough?

     

     

    Intel Core i7 920 2.66Ghz Quad-Core 64-bit processor. Asus P6T Motherboard. Kingston RAM 6GB DDR3 1333MHz. PNY Quadro FX 560 128MB. Creative SoundBlaster... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Dec 1 2009 9:49 AM In reply to

    • rebusfilm
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Malmo, Sweden
    • Posts 306
    • Points 3,810

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    Transcoding to ProRes would be silly since that's a format for Final Cut Pro. Instead I would suggest that you transcode directly to DNxHD Quicktimes and fast import those into Avid.

    I've used Voltaic HD for this when I needed AVCHD or H264 for editing in Avid. I bought it because it could handle more formats like the Panasonic HMC150 AVCHD.
    It's not that expensive ($39.99)

    You can get it here: http://www.shedworx.com/voltaichd

     

    I think you can use MPEG Streamclip as well. It's a free application, but it's not nearly as intuitive as Voltaic HD. It supports fewer formats - but you could be in luck with the 5D MarkII.

    http://www.squared5.com/

     

    Avid Media Composer 8.3 | OSX 10.9.5 | Mac Pro dual quad 3.46 GHz | 48 GB RAM | Caldigit HDPro 8 TB RAID 5 | Decklink Studio | JVC DTV1710 HD... [view my complete system specs]

    Jorgen Persson

  • Tue, Dec 1 2009 3:03 PM In reply to

    • alleycat
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Jan 4 2007
    • Posts 48
    • Points 720

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    Thanks for replying. I'll have a look at Voltaic HD but so far I'm not having any issues importing my H.264 files into Avid.

    Question still remains: Should I be importing my footage into a 29.97 SD project or sticking to a 1080p/30 project and simply downconverting to SD at the final stage for DVD outputting?

    I'm trying to understand the advantage of one over the other in terms of loss of quality during export/compression/etc...

     

     

    Intel Core i7 920 2.66Ghz Quad-Core 64-bit processor. Asus P6T Motherboard. Kingston RAM 6GB DDR3 1333MHz. PNY Quadro FX 560 128MB. Creative SoundBlaster... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Dec 1 2009 4:22 PM In reply to

    • lmerino
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Dec 19 2005
    • Los Angeles
    • Posts 326
    • Points 4,405

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    If you have the storage space, I would recommend keeping the files HD.  Personally, I feel I get a better transcode to mpeg at the end of the process with HD material.  Plus, if you know you are going to SD, you are able to zoom-in and reframe shots if necessary, or even stabalize shots without having to resize the image over 100%.

    Avid Certified HP Z820 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Dec 1 2009 5:06 PM In reply to

    • editdudes
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 112
    • Points 1,665

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    lmerino:

    If you have the storage space, I would recommend keeping the files HD.  Personally, I feel I get a better transcode to mpeg at the end of the process with HD material.  Plus, if you know you are going to SD, you are able to zoom-in and reframe shots if necessary, or even stabalize shots without having to resize the image over 100%.

    I couldn't agree more.

    Also, mastering in HD is a good idea if your client suddenly wants a blu-ray or has to do a large screen presentation.

    Symphony Nitris DX • MC Adrenaline DNxcel 5.5 • DaVinci Resolve • VirtualDub :) [view my complete system specs]

    E D I T   D U D E S

    Independent Post Production Services

    Malmö - SWEDEN

    www.editdudes.com

  • Tue, Dec 1 2009 7:03 PM In reply to

    • alleycat
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Jan 4 2007
    • Posts 48
    • Points 720

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    Thanks for clearing that up, guys.

    That's what I thought - if ever the client changes their mind, I always have a high-res version as backup at least.

    Now, concerning image quality control - if I need to export this to AE for color correction and mild compositing - since I cannot export a QT Ref HD file, would it be wise to export my final edit as an SD QT Ref, import that into AE, do my corrections and from there export as Uncompressed (for Sorenson) for DVD authoring?

    Does that workflow make sense? What would happen in this scenario for my "backup" HD file since no color correction has been added in the process? Or would it be best to export HD uncompressed from Avid directly to AE and do the final outputting to SD in there?

     

     

     

    Intel Core i7 920 2.66Ghz Quad-Core 64-bit processor. Asus P6T Motherboard. Kingston RAM 6GB DDR3 1333MHz. PNY Quadro FX 560 128MB. Creative SoundBlaster... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Dec 1 2009 8:00 PM In reply to

    • lmerino
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Dec 19 2005
    • Los Angeles
    • Posts 326
    • Points 4,405

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    My workflow is to import the MKII files into Avid as either DNxHD 145 or 220 depending on the project (really 145 is probably fine since the h.264 codec is so crunched anyway).

    Edit in Avid.

    Either spit out a DNxHD quicktime file (i'm not all that found of Ref. files if I can help it) or an AAF for use with Automatic Duck (again, depending on the project).

    Import into AE and do all comps, color and exporting from AE.

    As long as no timing has changed from the original edit that is still in Avid, I will export an uncompressed audio file from Avid to use with the video from AE.

    If I need the video to go back to the Avid, I will export the video from AE and import that single video file back into Avid, duplicate my final sequence, and line up the new video with the original audio.

    I will usually do this HD all the way through.  If I know for sure that my final output is SD, I will probably do a lot of reframing and stabalizing in AE, and then export an SD file for Avid and follow the same.

    Avid Certified HP Z820 [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Dec 2 2009 1:30 AM In reply to

    • alleycat
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Jan 4 2007
    • Posts 48
    • Points 720

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    Nice to get feedback from someone else who's using MKII files.

    So if I understand correctly, I'd be best importing into Avid as DNxHD 145, editing in there and exporting as same (DNxHD codec) for AE - meaning opening an HD project in AE to do my effects.

    Now, question is, what would be my advantages to import back into Avid? I really like exporting directly from Avid normally because I've always liked the QT Ref to Sorenson workflow (that's me, personally), but maybe this is unnecessary? Maybe I can export directly as Animation from AE to Sorenson to avoid this back and forth exporting/importing process? (Or does the DNxHD codec out of AE and into Avid barely lose any quality at all as it doesn't re-encode?).

    I guess I was totally following you with that workflow until you mentioned exporting your HD file as an SD file to ingest back into Avid... 

     

    Intel Core i7 920 2.66Ghz Quad-Core 64-bit processor. Asus P6T Motherboard. Kingston RAM 6GB DDR3 1333MHz. PNY Quadro FX 560 128MB. Creative SoundBlaster... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Dec 2 2009 2:25 AM In reply to

    • cls105
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • los angeles
    • Posts 433
    • Points 5,655

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    I have a 7d, should one import these as RGB or 601?  how about fields?  just want to double check, thx -c

    MC 2018.12.1, diy x299 7940x 4.7ghz OC, 1080ti, 128gb ram, w10 pro (1803) DM me on instagram for tech Q's: dvhaime [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Dec 2 2009 3:21 AM In reply to

    • lmerino
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Dec 19 2005
    • Los Angeles
    • Posts 326
    • Points 4,405

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    alleycat:
    Now, question is, what would be my advantages to import back into Avid?

    You don't have to go back to Avid if you don't need to (like if you just need a digital file as final output).  But let's say you need to go back and lay down a master to tape... that would be best done in Avid.

    alleycat:
    I guess I was totally following you with that workflow until you mentioned exporting your HD file as an SD file to ingest back into Avid... 

    This was about using your HD material in an SD comp in After Effects.  Since the SD comp is so much smaller (in resolution) you could either scale down your HD material to fit, or only scale it marginally and re-frame shots, stabalize, etc.

    Then, you can export that SD comp out of After Effects.

    Does that make sense?  I'm not sure I'm explaining myself well

    Avid Certified HP Z820 [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Dec 2 2009 3:24 AM In reply to

    • lmerino
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Dec 19 2005
    • Los Angeles
    • Posts 326
    • Points 4,405

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    cls105:
    I have a 7d, should one import these as RGB or 601?  how about fields?  just want to double check, thx -c


    As far as I know it should be RGB, since the pixel values in the h.264 range from 0 to 255.

    The MKII only shoots 30p at the moment (firmware update pending)... and at least for that, the original is progressive.

    Avid Certified HP Z820 [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Dec 2 2009 8:50 PM In reply to

    • alleycat
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Jan 4 2007
    • Posts 48
    • Points 720

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    Thanks again, Imerino. I think you're answer's pretty clear - it's just me that's not maybe getting things right! Smile

    Let me ask a different way to make sure I get it this time:

    If I import my footage in Avid as HD, make my edit and need to export to AE later on, then I should use the DNxHD codec to export out from Avid, as well as out from AE to bring that back into Avid if need be, to have the least amount of quality loss, right? There's no other way to go about it if I understand correctly...

    I guess what I'm trying to wrap my brain around is the advantages and disadvantages of creating an SD comp in AE and scaling down my material versus creating an HD comp and then outputting to SD... Is the image quality better if I scale down my HD footage in an SD comp, as opposed to crunching it down straight out of Avid as SD?

     

    Intel Core i7 920 2.66Ghz Quad-Core 64-bit processor. Asus P6T Motherboard. Kingston RAM 6GB DDR3 1333MHz. PNY Quadro FX 560 128MB. Creative SoundBlaster... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Dec 2 2009 10:07 PM In reply to

    • lmerino
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Dec 19 2005
    • Los Angeles
    • Posts 326
    • Points 4,405

    Re: MarkII workflow suggestions needed

    alleycat:
    should use the DNxHD codec to export out from Avid,

    Yes

    alleycat:
    as well as out from AE to bring that back into Avid if need be, to have the least amount of quality loss, right? There's no other way to go about it if I understand correctly...

    Yes, this is what I do.  You want to make sure you have all your settings correct so that you are encoding correctly out of AE, but if all goes well you should get a "fast import" back to Avid to let you know.

    You could export uncompressed out of AE, or even a TIFF sequence, but those will be very large files, and you will inevitably be importing into Avid as DNxHD anyway.  DNxHD is very good at keeping the generational loss to a minimum.

    Also, you need to make sure all your settings while working in AE are correct, as well as exporting.  The RGB vs. 601 question can get confusing. 

    To play it safe, when you export your edit from Avid, select RGB in your export settings.  This will map your video to 0-255 color range.  Then when you take that into AE, you will be working in RGB color space (if you don't use color management, etc.)  Now, when you export your finished comp out of AE, you want to make sure the RGB option is again selected in the codec options dialogue.  This will tell the Avid codec that what you are giving it is indeed RGB values.  The Avid codec will then map those RGB values to 601/709 values (I'm pretty sure about this).  So that when you now return to Avid, you want the import setting to be 601/709...  this should get you a "fast import"

    yes, very nutty... but not too bad once you wrap your brain around it.  If I'm wrong about any of this, I would love a correction... but this is close to the way I've been doing it.  (I am using the color management feature in AE which adds a whole other level of confusion).

     

    alleycat:
    Is the image quality better if I scale down my HD footage in an SD comp, as opposed to crunching it down straight out of Avid as SD?

    I really have no idea which is better at scaling, Avid or AE.  I keep bringing up doing all the scaling in AE cuzz I like reframing my shots in AE as opposed to Avid.

    Avid Certified HP Z820 [view my complete system specs]
Page 1 of 1 (13 items)

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller