Latest post Mon, Jan 27 2014 4:48 AM by jwrl. 26 replies.
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  • Thu, Aug 5 2010 8:59 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    There's a "hidden menu": by clicking on top of the record window You can duplicate the sequence, the newly duplicated sequence will be the active one (if You right click and hit duplicate or select the sequence in the bin and enter CTRL-D the sequence itself will be duplicated but will not be loaded), MC appends a .Copy.# to the name, You don't even need to name the newly created sequence by date, as just diplaying the "Creation date" header in the bin will provide You with the very same info; with this technique You get numbered sequences starting from 01 (the first draft) up to X (whatever it is the last revision of Your work); I usually create a custom bin column, named Note or Comment or whatever, to add a short description of the sequence, such as "from scene X to Y" and the like.

    Symphony 2018.5, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Wed, Jan 22 2014 9:26 AM In reply to

    • Holy_13
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    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    But there is another circumstance I don't want the MC to save a bin.

    For example: I am working on a huge show project.
    Now I want to edit recaps and am opening bins with previous episodes' timelines.
    I only edit IN/OUT to edit some of the clips into my timeline and then want to close the bin without saving it, because the changes are irrelevant and saving the bin would take at least 10 seconds...

    so.. any ideas on how to avoid that save?

  • Wed, Jan 22 2014 9:30 AM In reply to

    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    As others have said if you don;t want to make changes to things take copies of them ratehr than working with the originals.

    I do hope Avid doesn't include an option not to save. Far more work will be lost through that than the current robust method of saving and attic.

    And as already posted the Attic will hold the copy of the bin before the save so the unaltered version can always be recovered from there.

    But good working practice is to be working on copies of bins.

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  • Wed, Jan 22 2014 9:54 AM In reply to

    • Holy_13
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    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    which does not really solve the problem I stated above...
    the copy of the bin will also be saving for the same ammount of time as will the original..

    and if there would be a function like "ALT/OPTION + closing a bin" to close a bin without saving it there won't be any work lost, because people can still work like they are used to it.. but others would be able to use the feature...
    and you wouldn't be closing a bin without saving it by coincidence..

  • Wed, Jan 22 2014 4:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    I'm still not quite following why you're not wanting to have the Bin save? If I open a Bin and only move an In/Out point to re-export or whatever it doesn't affect the edit, but there's no reason I can think of why I would be against it saving in that state.

    Just dupe the Seq before you make your Marks modifications and even though the Bin will save, the original version without your mods will still be just as you left it - that is, if moving In/Outs is really that big of a deal that you'd be in trouble if they moved.

     

     

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  • Sun, Jan 26 2014 7:45 AM In reply to

    • IngoSmitt
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    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    Hi,

    yes, that's a big big mistake in MC.

    Theres no normal way to leave without saving

    AND

    There's no "save as" possibility for saving a variant of the project with another name.

    I never understood why the avid developpers forgot this possibility.

     

    In modern times, where you edit a project for different destinations - e.g for use at exhibitions you have more lower-thirds, for use in the web, you have a better sound - no normal project stays at one lonely variant.

    Copying the sequences inside of the project uselessly blows up the project a makes a big mess in the sequences.

     

    Greets

    Ingo

     

  • Sun, Jan 26 2014 8:40 AM In reply to

    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    IngoSmitt:
    Copying the sequences inside of the project uselessly blows up the project a makes a big mess in the sequences.

    I don't find that to be the case.  I've worked in projects with multiple versions/sequences.  As long as you're reasonably organized it should be ok.  I definitely prefer that to having multiple versions of a project.

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  • Sun, Jan 26 2014 9:35 AM In reply to

    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    IngoSmitt:
    Copying the sequences inside of the project uselessly blows up the project
    Saving entire projects "as" would mean uselessly copying huge amounts of data.

    Way better the way it is, using folders, if you need various destinations. No need to have all bins with all selects and all source clips and all synced/grouped clips duplicated just because you want to make a web-version of your final sequence.

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  • Sun, Jan 26 2014 3:30 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    IngoSmitt:

    yes, that's a big big mistake in MC.

    Theres no normal way to leave without saving

    MC autosaves every 15 minutes by default, more often if You're wise enough, so there's not such a thing as an unsaved Avid project.

     

     

    IngoSmitt:

    There's no "save as" possibility for saving a variant of the project with another name.

    I never understood why the avid developpers forgot this possibility.

    It's not a matter of forgiving the save as command; every Avid project is tied to its own mediafiles, saving as a project with a different name will break the link between the newly saved (created) project and its media, still linked to the parent project, making media management more difficult, and killing one of the best features of the software, which is in fact media management.

     

     

    IngoSmitt:

    In modern times, where you edit a project for different destinations - e.g for use at exhibitions you have more lower-thirds, for use in the web, you have a better sound - no normal project stays at one lonely variant.

    Copying the sequences inside of the project uselessly blows up the project a makes a big mess in the sequences.

    Not quite: duplicating the entire project for each delivery requires way more room than duplicating a sequence, just think of using sequences and bins the way You tend to use projects; having a master sequence, the "mother of all sequences", in a bin along with multiple copies for "custom" deliveries it's very efficient, more than having multiple projects; or You can make several bins for each variation of the mother of all sequences; You can even have folders in the project window to better arrange Your bins. The mess is up to You, work tidy and there won't be any mess! As a rule of thumb I organize my project thinking that if tomorrow Francis Ford Coppola rings me up and asks me to join him the very next day for his last project, take it or leave it, I can seamlessly turn my project over to another editor and he/she will be able to pick it up from where I left off with no need for my assistance, this is also useful to avoid the big mess that You mention.

    Symphony 2018.5, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Sun, Jan 26 2014 3:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    As Luca says a projects size is almost all made up of the bins in it (and bins are made up of clips and sequences mostly)

    The actual .avp file and project settings are small. But the project name is important for media management.

    Editors have managed to do what's being asked for many years making copies of bins and organising within a project and occasionally making additional projects to solve specific tasks.

    But I still see more risk than value to having the ability to exit without saving as you'd also ahve to have disabled autosaves.

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  • Sun, Jan 26 2014 4:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    I think the take away here for anyone migrating from another NLE to Media Composer is that the Bins inside MC are much more important than the project. In other NLE's if you can't open the project, you've lost all your work. As such, it is very common practice to make continual copies of projects in the event that something gets corrupted along the way or as a general backup. This is precisely what I do when working in FCP7.

    With Avid, the Bins are independent of the project and they can easily be transferred from one project to another simply by using the OS Finder or Explorer (depending on whether you're on Mac or PC)

    Avid projects are the .avp file, but the components of each Avid project is actually saved as a Folder. Inside that folder live your .avp project file, the project settings file(s) .avs and .xml and your Bins (.avb)

    If something happens to your project you can simply create a new project and then open any .avb file in the new project and you don't lose any work. So, if you're versioning sequences for one reason or another you can do all of that from within a Bin or even multiple Bins. There is no need to copy the entire project or Save As...

    As most everyone has been suggesting, the "Save As..." is the duplicated Seq with a different name.

    The beauty of this Bin method is that if you needed to send a version of a sequence to someone else for more editing, you can just email the Bin with the version of the SEQ that you want them to have. You don't have to send the entire project.

    Whenever I work on a collaborative project with another editor I set up a shared Dropbox folder and then use an automatic backup software to copy the contents of my Project folder to the Dropbox. The editor on the other end, just has to grab my most recent Bins, which are usually very small compared to the overall project. 

    I have a very simple project now with about 10 hrs of raw material and 19 Seqs and my "Current SEQs" bin is only 1.5MB. The whole project is 7MB. So you can see how making a duplicate of the project rather than a duplicate of the SEQs or Bin would quickly eat up a lot of unnecessary space.

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  • Mon, Jan 27 2014 4:48 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Closing my project....without saving?

    IngoSmitt:
    that's a big big mistake in MC.
    Theres no normal way to leave without saving
    AND
    There's no "save as" possibility for saving a variant of the project with another name.
    As Kenton has already said, this probably indicates a basic misunderstanding of the difference between Avid and most other NLEs.  The only other NLE that I can think of that allows the flexibility that Avid offers in this respect is Lightworks.

    Both store edits and media in a structure that is independent of the master project data.  Both make it a simple matter to duplicate sequences to produce alternatives.  Both will allow you to import copies of clip data into new projects if you so wish, and save that new project independently of the original.

    In both cases if you choose to do that your media will not be managed as part of that new project.  This brings the risk of subsequent media loss should the original project be removed.

    On long form projects I may have literally dozens of copies of sequences and part sequences.  I organise those sequences by bins and folders.  It's quick and easy and pretty much foolproof.

    On FCP and Premiere I tend to save complete copies of projects because not to do so in those environments is best described as living dangerously.  In Avid and Lightworks I backup my project folders onto external drives on a weekly basis.

    Over the 20+ years I have worked with NLEs I have used mainly LW and MC and I have never lost a project.  I put this down to the fact that I don't need to explicitly save in either Lightworks or Media Composer.  To add a "Save As..." structure to MC wouldn't I believe increase that security.  I think that it would probably do the opposite, because it adds another thing to forget.

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