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  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 9:52 AM

    • jiggyjay
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    Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    Please don't take this as a bash on MC. MC is a great software but its just not for me.. I've been messing around with MC5 doing tutorials and even Final Cut and I just can't believe how Liquid, a 6 year old program is so much better IMO.. Background rendering, auto save, easy 2d and 3d editor, easy snapshot tool are just some of the things I miss from Liquid! Its funny when I was using Liquid I wanted what the "pros" were using(Avid and FCP) and now I want Liquid back! You don't know what you have until its gone! 

     I know that I am able to still use Liquid but would like to just have an updated version. Avid you don't even have to change a thing with the interface! All you have to do is make it 64 bit, native windows 7 or Mac compatibleWink, update the native codecs(mainly working with HDSLR AVCHD files) add new effects, make the DVD maker blu ray compatible and voila you got yourself a Premier Pro, Sony Vegas and Edius killer! If Avid does this I would gladly upgrade from MC5Big Smile!

     

    Windows 7 System- MSI 880 mobo, AMD 1055t X6, 4gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 Hackintosh System- Gigabyte h55 mobo, i5 760, 4 gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 10:06 AM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    Hello JJ,

    I don't take it as a bash on MC.
    But, if I am correct, it is Pinnacle that you should be asking.

    I may be wrong, but I have understood that Avid Technology is the top (umbrella) organisation and under it (the umbrella) are Avid(the video section with MC) and various "acquired" subsidiaries like Pinnacle etc. etc.
    I think that each of them have a certain freedom to decide their future direction.
    Pinnacle had Liquid, and it is Pinnacle that makes the decision. As far as I see Studio is the way to go, if you are still wanting a Liquid style NLE.
    Good luck.

    Regards,
    Douglas

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

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  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 10:17 AM In reply to

    • Mike Shaw
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    ...All you have to do is make it 64 bit, native windows 7 or Mac compatibleWink, update the native codecs(mainly working with HDSLR AVCHD files) add new effects, make the DVD maker blu ray compatible ...

    ... and change the titler to something more dynamic, add sensible effects (not just 'new' ones) like corner pinning (with interpolated keyframes) and motion tracking - improve (as in totally replace) the media management system for one that doesn't leave junk all over the system when something is deleted, provide a working back-up and restore system that, umm, actually works, make the UI more customisable than simply being able to add or remove control icons, provide a DVD creator that can actually create DVDs with a Play All as well as having Chapter Points with rtm, enable a ... 

    Oh hang on.  That's not a five minute job after all, is it ... and isn't all that what MC does?

    Yes, Liquid can be easier to use and has nice features - like the snapshot and background rendering etc  - but that's because you got used to it and it doesn't have all the options built into MC.  (Who is to say some of those things won't be incorporated into MC one day - the MC way?). But when you build all those 'requests' into Liquid, suddenly it won't be so easy to use: and as I understand it, one of the problems with Liquid was that the code had become overly cluttered and clogged,   and that was the problem - no more could be squeezed in without causing problems of stability and so on. 

     

    MC6.0.3.2 Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Rev2 MB, Intel i7-950 3.06Ghz, 12GB DDR3 1333Mhz RAM, 1x500GB, 3x1TB HDrives, 2+1TB Network drives, nVidia Quadro FX1800... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 10:24 AM In reply to

    • jiggyjay
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    I dont know who's decision it was to can Liquid or who can bring it back but Avid is the parent company! So i'm sure the parents has the power to control their "kids" and i'm sure Avid would like to hear some feedback from their customers just like whats going in the 20+ page thread in the MC PC forum! Keep in mind the product that i'm talking about is named "Avid Liquid 7" wasn't it?? 

    Douglas I can't believe you pretty much said that Studio=Liquid! Those are fighting words! That's just like saying MC=Liquid! Wink hehe.. 

    Windows 7 System- MSI 880 mobo, AMD 1055t X6, 4gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 Hackintosh System- Gigabyte h55 mobo, i5 760, 4 gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 10:35 AM In reply to

    • jiggyjay
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    Mike Shaw:

    ... and change the titler to something more dynamic, add sensible effects (not just 'new' ones) like corner pinning (with interpolated keyframes) and motion tracking - improve (as in totally replace) the media management system for one that doesn't leave junk all over the system when something is deleted, provide a working back-up and restore system that, umm, actually works, make the UI more customisable than simply being able to add or remove control icons, provide a DVD creator that can actually create DVDs with a Play All as well as having Chapter Points with rtm, enable a ... 

    Oh hang on.  That's not a five minute job after all, is it ... and isn't all that what MC does?

    Mike please refrain from turning this to a Liquid vs MC thread! Theres plenty of it here already! I know MC5 has some great features and is a great software and i'm not trying to bash it! All i'm saying is Avid really needs that semi-pro video editing software back and an updated Liquid going for $500-$600 will do it for them.. Without the upgrade price that Avid gave us Liquid users theres no way I would've spent $2400 on a video editing software when Vegas, Premiere and Edius can be had for far less! In fact even Final Cut Studio 3 can be had for $800 for the full version. 

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/639275-REG/Apple_MB642Z_A_Final_Cut_Studio_3.html

     

    Mike Shaw:

    Yes, Liquid can be easier to use and has nice features - like the snapshot and background rendering etc  - but that's because you got used to it and it doesn't have all the options built into MC.  (Who is to say some of those things won't be incorporated into MC one day - the MC way?). But when you build all those 'requests' into Liquid, suddenly it won't be so easy to use: and as I understand it, one of the problems with Liquid was that the code had become overly cluttered and clogged,   and that was the problem - no more could be squeezed in without causing problems of stability and so on. 

    Maybe it will but have you seen that 20+ page thread regarding MC5 in the PC forum? Seems like Avid has been ignoring many request that users have made with MC for years now! Looks like they even implemented things that nobody wanted and now everybody is complaining about! With all the bugs and complaints regarding MC5 I doubt they are going to be implementing any new features until they actually fix MC5 first! That's why i'm suggesting just re releasing Liquid 7 with updated features! No need to be able to customize your windows like in MC5.. i thought it would be cool at first but man its annoying having to setup your windows right in MC5. If they implement something like how FCP or AE does it with the ability to lock that would be so much better!

    Windows 7 System- MSI 880 mobo, AMD 1055t X6, 4gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 Hackintosh System- Gigabyte h55 mobo, i5 760, 4 gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 10:48 AM In reply to

    • Mike Shaw
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    ... and what I was trying to say is that Liquid had reached its limit, no matter who owned it.  (That is a fact, by the way, not a surmise). It wasn't a case of tarting up Liquid to meet the new operating systems, new formats and so on, it was a case of starting again and developing new code from scratch.

    Now, maybe Avid should be thinking of creating a pruned down version of MC for the mid range.  If such a thing were even possible!

    MC6.0.3.2 Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Rev2 MB, Intel i7-950 3.06Ghz, 12GB DDR3 1333Mhz RAM, 1x500GB, 3x1TB HDrives, 2+1TB Network drives, nVidia Quadro FX1800... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 11:00 AM In reply to

    • jiggyjay
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    Mike Shaw:

    ... and what I was trying to say is that Liquid had reached its limit, no matter who owned it.  (That is a fact, by the way, not a surmise). It wasn't a case of tarting up Liquid to meet the new operating systems, new formats and so on, it was a case of starting again and developing new code from scratch.

    Really?? Did Avid or Pinnacle release a statement on how Liquid was maxed out and can no longer be worked on? Or are you one of the computer engineer behind Liquid? Even if Liquid codes were jumbled and such i'm sure they could've stripped it down and used the frame of the software to rebuild a new one.. Just like old cars being turned into hot rods! But i'm not a software engineer so I wouldn't know a thing about it! I think Liquid was canned because it didn't have much of a userbase in the first place and Avid wanted that userbase to switch to MC.. 

    Mike Shaw:
    Now, maybe Avid should be thinking of creating a pruned down version of MC for the mid range.  If such a thing were even possible!

    It is possible and they did have one.. It was called Avid Liquid 7!

    Windows 7 System- MSI 880 mobo, AMD 1055t X6, 4gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 Hackintosh System- Gigabyte h55 mobo, i5 760, 4 gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 11:01 AM In reply to

    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    Mike Shaw:
    Now, maybe Avid should be thinking of creating a pruned down version of MC for the mid range.  If such a thing were even possible!

    It was called Avid Xpress Pro (and there was also Avid Xpress DV).  You got the same interface as MC, but you didn't get some of the advanced paint and keying effects, and probably some other stuff I don't remember, but which really made the Xpress Pro people mad, as they felt like 2nd class citizens compared to Media Composer.

    When they dropped the price of Media Composer dramatically, there didn't seem to be much point in having 2 levels of product, so they killed it.

    I'm now going to step out of this thread so you guys can argue about the history of Liquid for the next 20 or 30 pages.  Stick out tongue

    jiggyjay:
    Really?? Did Avid or Pinnacle release a statement on how Liquid was maxed out and can no longer be worked on? Or are you one of the computer engineer behind Liquid?

    And this is a friendly reminder to everyone involved to keep the conversation professional.  If y'all start making personal jabs at each other, there will be consequences and repercussions.

    ciao,
    Carl 

    Media Composer 2018.12.1 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Envy 17t-j100 Quad Edition laptop, Windows 10 Pro, Intel Core i7 2.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, nVidia GeForce... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 11:13 AM In reply to

    • Mike Shaw
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    Really?? Did Avid or Pinnacle release a statement on how Liquid was maxed out and can no longer be worked on? Or are you one of the computer engineer behind Liquid?
      

    Yes. In a two hour talk 

    And no - but I was a beta tester for it.

    Carl - I shall now join you, and let this ramble on for an eternity, getting absolutely nowhere Wink

    MC6.0.3.2 Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Rev2 MB, Intel i7-950 3.06Ghz, 12GB DDR3 1333Mhz RAM, 1x500GB, 3x1TB HDrives, 2+1TB Network drives, nVidia Quadro FX1800... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 11:18 AM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    So let me step in here and try and slow things down a bit.

    Here is the basic flaw in any discussion about Liquid migrants moving to MC and comparing the two.

    Those who were leaving Liquid have had many years of experience and made the move to MC at a time they were very proficient in using it do everything they needed.
    They had little of NO experience of MC.

    You cannot compare something that you are proficient with with something that you have no experience of at all.

    Do the comparison after you have used MC for a year . . .  then it will be a more correct comparison.

    However, my point in my first reponse to this thread is that this is not the place to discuss any request for a revival of Liquid. The Pinnacle Forum is the place.

    That said I do hope that anyone who is having difficulty getting into MC, try and take it step by step and not just jump in and try Extruded Text on a path with colour changes as it fades into a time warped animatte effect with 6 tracks of HD composited into a spherical bump mapped rotating globe with embossed every changing morphed faces of famous people............  and then say, It is so difficult to do this in MC.... in Liquid I only needed 2 keystrokes and 1 drag&drop!

    Please take this wish over to Pinnacle.

    I leave now (stage left) and hope that others take the hint . . . . . . .

    Regards,
    Douglas

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

    marianna.montague@avid.com

    mobile 813-493-6800

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  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 11:18 AM In reply to

    • jiggyjay
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    camoscato:
    You got the same interface as MC, but you didn't get some of the advanced paint and keying effects, and probably some other stuff I don't remember, but which really made the Xpress Pro people mad, as they felt like 2nd class citizens compared to Media Composer.

    Yeah those MC users are pretty snotty! They treat everybody that's not using MC as 2nd class citizens! This video tells it all!Wink

    camoscato:

    When they dropped the price of Media Composer dramatically, there didn't seem to be much point in having 2 levels of product, so they killed it.

     

    What was the price of MC before the price drop?

    camoscato:
    I'm now going to step out of this thread so you guys can argue about the history of Liquid for the next 20 or 30 pages.

    That is my goal!Big Smile

     

    Windows 7 System- MSI 880 mobo, AMD 1055t X6, 4gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 Hackintosh System- Gigabyte h55 mobo, i5 760, 4 gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 11:32 AM In reply to

    • jiggyjay
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    Mike Shaw:

    Yes. In a two hour talk 

    And no - but I was a beta tester for it.

     

    You can't really believe what everybody tells you specially from businesses.. So since you are not a software engineer and being a "beta tester" does not backup the claim that Liquid was "maxed out" i'll dismiss that notion but thanks for participating!Yes

    Windows 7 System- MSI 880 mobo, AMD 1055t X6, 4gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 Hackintosh System- Gigabyte h55 mobo, i5 760, 4 gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 11:44 AM In reply to

    • Mike Shaw
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    Actually, when someone spends two hours explaining why a program cannot be developed any more, with valid reasons for so saying,  and that to do what is needed to bring it into the current world needs a restart from scratch, yes, I believe them.  Especially after having seen what was happening during the beta tests.

    Never mind jiggyjay, every one is entitled to an opinion. But do realise that here you are wasting your effort.  As Douglas has pointed out, the place to shout is on the Pinnacle forums.  Liquid is dead.  Cremated. And buried.  If and when Avid want to bring out a mid range product, they will.

     

     

    MC6.0.3.2 Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Rev2 MB, Intel i7-950 3.06Ghz, 12GB DDR3 1333Mhz RAM, 1x500GB, 3x1TB HDrives, 2+1TB Network drives, nVidia Quadro FX1800... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 11:48 AM In reply to

    • jiggyjay
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    drbgaijin:

    Those who were leaving Liquid have had many years of experience and made the move to MC at a time they were very proficient in using it do everything they needed.
    They had little of NO experience of MC.

    You cannot compare something that you are proficient with with something that you have no experience of at all.


    Doug I know what you mean.. I remember all the rants that Liquid users had in this forum when the switch started happening in may of last year. I vowed when i was going to start doing my MC training that I will keep an open mind and not make MC work like Liquid! I started my training 5 months ago and kept my frustration in me. Then i decided that I also wanted to learn FCP since those are the most used software in the industry. That added more frustration and made me want Liquid more! I went through the MC5 getting started training again and that pretty much took me over the edge on wanting to go back to Liquid! Believe me i tried to keep an open mind and tried not to compare MC5 and FCP to Liquid but just couldn't do it!

    I know if I didn't know any other software then I wouldn't have any problems learning the MC way! But just couldn't contain my frustration about how difficult some things are in MC compared to Liquid and these are things that I did use a lot in Liquid.. Sigh.. I will stick it out with MC5 and I know eventually i will love it! But if Avid does listen to meBig Smile and comes out with a Liquid like software I would still probably make the switch unless clients really need me to edit in MC.. 

     

    Windows 7 System- MSI 880 mobo, AMD 1055t X6, 4gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 Hackintosh System- Gigabyte h55 mobo, i5 760, 4 gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 3 2011 12:00 PM In reply to

    • jiggyjay
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    Re: Avid please bring Liquid back!!!!

    Mike Shaw:
    Actually, when someone spends two hours explaining why a program cannot be developed any more, with valid reasons for so saying,  and that to do what is needed to bring it into the current world needs a restart from scratch, yes, I believe them.  Especially after having seen what was happening during the beta tests.

    I'll leave it that.. 

    Mike Shaw:

    Never mind jiggyjay, every one is entitled to an opinion. But do realise that here you are wasting your effort.  As Douglas has pointed out, the place to shout is on the Pinnacle forums.  Liquid is dead.  Cremated. And buried.  If and when Avid want to bring out a mid range product, they will.

     

    Well it was worth a shot! Judging from the 20+ page thread in the PC forum I knew Avid didn't listen to their customers anyways.. Lets just hope Avid will still be around to be able bring out a mid rage product once they iron out MC5!

    Windows 7 System- MSI 880 mobo, AMD 1055t X6, 4gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 Hackintosh System- Gigabyte h55 mobo, i5 760, 4 gb ram, Nvidia GT 240 [view my complete system specs]
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