Latest post Sat, Mar 12 2011 4:26 AM by smyers63. 78 replies.
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  • Sun, Feb 20 2011 10:45 AM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    Mike Shaw:

    I do have it.  It is quite long (and in 'two parts) - over an hour I believe -  otherwise I'd post it up somewhere  for the naysayer to listen to as well - and distort to support his argument.

    Yes Douglas.  It explains in detail and at length the reasons for the demise of Liquid. What I know is based partly on that.  The discussions at the time were not about Liquid's (sad) demise, they were about 'what's next?'

    Thank you Mike.

    I am glad that someone has the actual speech in his archives.
    Now it would be nice if I, for one. . . . would stop prolonging the agony of the death of Liquid.
    Yep, I am as much to blame as anyone for keeping on bringing it up.

    I finish my participation in my own thread by saying:

    Liquid is at the end of it's development!

    According to Dave Stone, a Moderator on the Pinnacle forums, Avid Studio is the promised NextGen, developed by the team in Munich, Germany!

    EOL and, for me, end of thread.

    Regards,
    Douglas

     

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  • Sun, Feb 20 2011 11:02 AM In reply to

    • Mike Shaw
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    I'd like to add a further reminder of 'that speech' ...

    It was said then that all that was currently in Liquid would not find its way into a newgen - the broadcast stuff would be excluded for example. The impression was that Avid did not need to compete with itself - (and Xpress went as well, remember - Liquid and Xpress could be considered competitive products, but both went).

    When you see and try AS, it is not like Studio, and it is not like Liquid (though there are obvious similarities - as there are with ALL editors).  It is a new generation editor.  So on that basis, I guess David Stone could be right in saying its 'newgen'. 

    Forget Liquid.  It is dead.

    And, like Douglas, so is this thread as far as I'm concerned.

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  • Sun, Feb 20 2011 3:07 PM In reply to

    • sam the sham
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    So tell me, is Liquid dead or not, is Avid Studio Nextgen or not? Smile

    or does it matter............

    "What's in a name? That which we call a rose
    By any other name would smell as sweet."

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  • Sun, Feb 20 2011 4:07 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    Everyone gets caught up in a name. Name recognition has value when it represents the talents of an organization as a brand name to produce a product that achieves a known performance level.

    We questioned why the reputation associated with the Liquid name built up over time was not being leveraged for the new product. I attended that Immersion in NC. What people saw in the video was edited, some of the sharper questions ending up on the cutting room floor.

    That seems a long time ago, AVCHD was not a factor, and DSLR video, equally obscure.

    Despite an initial flurry of conversations, the product fell off the planet. Bad ecomomic times ensued, and the wisdom of marketing an all-new program against established competition was called into question.

    Now, after 3+ years, we have a release. Is it a super-solid high performance base that will blow through cpu intensive formats? Or an uber-Studio that has a governer installed to limit performance poliicially. 

    No one would expect the potential to include shared workstations or the collaborative functionality, or file management of MC. 

    Provide a lean, fast (pun) engine at the core, allow DnX export, and lets see what she'll do.

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  • Sun, Feb 20 2011 4:52 PM In reply to

    • stwb
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    Mike Shaw:
    I do have it.  It is quite long (and in 'two parts) - over an hour I believe -  otherwise I'd post it up somewhere  for the naysayer to listen to as well - and distort to support his argument.

     

    Oh nice....actually I don't believe you even understand what my argument is. Let's review.

    Mike Shaw:
    Avid Studio . . . has a lot of potential for growing and expanding into a more advanced version.

    That is the statement of yours that I am seriously questioning will ever happen and why I said if Avid management wanted "a more advanced version" then I sincerely believe that is what they would have started with instead of trying to do it using a lesser version of NLE as you are suggesting.

    Was I arguing to resurrect Liquid 7? Not hardly. I was simply saying that IF Avid management had wanted to have "a more advanced version" then they already had a very good starting point in Liquid 7 as well as a loyal customer base to go with it. Would they have had to rewrite Liquid from the ground up? Possibly, especially for a 64-bit version. But the programming concepts and features in Liquid could have been used in the rebuilt version and a majority of its look and feel could have been retained.

    At any rate, I really don't think you should be making statements that could potentially string people along and cause them to get their hopes up that Avid Studio will someday be made into much more than it is currently, even if you were as you say involved in a small way in the development of the new AS. I'm pretty sure from what I've seen posted by the mods on this forum that any statements about the future of Avid's products are supposed to come from Avid's management. Since you say you were involved in the development of AS did you sign an NDA? So have you now violated the terms of that NDA by leaking information about this new NLE's future? And if your involvement was so minimal that you were not required to sign an NDA, should you still be leaking any information at all about this NLE's future?

    And now this discussion is also EOL for me as well since certain people have started twisting my words around and I don't want to give them any more ammo.

    -Steve

  • Sun, Feb 20 2011 11:57 PM In reply to

    • Saylur
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    If this is NEW GEN why did it take 3 years to develop a 32 bit App? Huh?

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    Regards

    Mike

  • Mon, Feb 21 2011 2:22 AM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    OK then - it's not NextGen! It's... what? What would you call this? Why would Avid create a product that seems at first glance to be marginally better than Pinnacle Studio but far behind Media Composer? Where will this product be positioned?

    Will it replace Pinnacle Studio eventually? Will it grow to sit somewhere between Pinnacle Studio and Media Composer, competing with the likes of Vegas, Premiere and those NLEs at that price point?

    Very difficult to know. When we were involved with the Liquid group back three years ago, we understood that the NextGen NLE would be placed somewhere between MC and Pinnacle Studio and that Avid would remove the broadcast and high end features from it (so as to create a gap between NextGen and MC). In my estimate, this Avid Studio does satisfy those qualities; however, I'm surprised that it appears to be closer to Pinnacle Studio than it is to MC.

    Time will tell...

    Cheers

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    Steve

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  • Mon, Feb 21 2011 6:11 AM In reply to

    • jiggyjay
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    BarkinMadd:

    Why would Avid creat a product that seems at first glance to be marginally better than Pinnacle Studio but far behind Media Composer? Where will this product be positioned?

    Will it replace Pinnacle Studio eventually? Will it grow to sit somewhere between Pinnacle Studio and Media Composer, competing with the likes of Vegas, Premiere and those NLEs at that price point?

    Think MC is suppose to be the product that competes with Premiere, Vegas, Edius and FCP even though its price much higher than them.. Wasn't Liquid discontinued because it competed too much with MC?? The thing that baffles me is the big price difference from AS to MC.. Either MC has to come down more on its price or you'll have Avid Studio users migrating to Premiere, FCP, Vegas once they max out Avid Studio.. 

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  • Mon, Feb 21 2011 6:44 AM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    jiggyjay:
    Wasn't Liquid discontinued because it competed too much with MC??

    There I was thinking that I had covered that by pointing out that J.Piros presented the cold hard facts at "Liquid Immersion" in 2007.

    The was no mention of this bit of speculation in his speech.

    It is speculation, which is forbidden on these forums , when pertianing to Avid products.

    Speculation is defined as, "forming a theory or conjecture especially without a firm factual basis"

    Drag on the discussion, if you feel it is still necessary, but please leave out the speculation.

     

    JJ. I know you did not actually speculate.... you asked a question........ but the borderline is hairfine at this point. Better to drop that line of "speculation". Geeked

    Regards,

    Douglas

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

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  • Tue, Feb 22 2011 4:44 AM In reply to

    • Joe M
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    drbgaijin:

    jiggyjay:
    Wasn't Liquid discontinued because it competed too much with MC??

    There I was thinking that I had covered that by pointing out that J.Piros presented the cold hard facts at "Liquid Immersion" in 2007.

    The was no mention of this bit of speculation in his speech.

    It is speculation, which is forbidden on these forums , when pertianing to Avid products.

    Speculation is defined as, "forming a theory or conjecture especially without a firm factual basis"

    Drag on the discussion, if you feel it is still necessary, but please leave out the speculation.

     

    JJ. I know you did not actually speculate.... you asked a question........ but the borderline is hairfine at this point. Better to drop that line of "speculation". Geeked

    Regards,

    Douglas

    Since this seems to be a sematics issue... perhaps it was a rhetorical question?   <- like this one.   Confused

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    .

  • Tue, Feb 22 2011 5:13 AM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    Joe M:
    Since this seems to be a sematics issue... perhaps it was a rhetorical question?   <- like this one.   Confused

    Big Smile Geeked

    Regards,
    Douglas

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  • Tue, Feb 22 2011 8:41 AM In reply to

    • Sef
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    If I remember well, the term "NextGen"or "NexGen" was a work title for a new product. This means that a new product should have got a new name, what so ever.

    The only thing I can accept for the name "Studio..." is that the group of users who are potential users for the new product, are the former Studio users. AFAIK, there will be no further Studio version developed named, like the "old" ones.

    The whole fuzz about a NextGen will probably come to end, when the last Liquid user has passed away.

    Long time I was waiting for the ultimate girl, beautiful and rich, to cross my way. She never did.

    Confused 

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  • Tue, Feb 22 2011 12:40 PM In reply to

    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    One of the big sticking points that I have found with Avid products to date (and that includes Liquid and MC) is that the interfaces are not "windows" based. In other words I can't break up the interface into windows and extend to multiple monitors any which way I want. It's the Avid way... or no way.

    I can do this with other programs on the market... but not Avid products. Has this changed with the new AS?

  • Mon, Feb 28 2011 2:02 PM In reply to

    • Bernd
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    Sef:
    Long time I was waiting for the ultimate girl, beautiful and rich, to cross my way. She never did.

    Confused 

    ... then I was lucky, she crossed my way .... Wink

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    Learning by Doing Smile

  • Mon, Feb 28 2011 3:01 PM In reply to

    • Sef
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    Re: NextGen has arrived!

    Davilex:

    Sef:
    Long time I was waiting for the ultimate girl, beautiful and rich, to cross my way. She never did.

    Confused 

    ... then I was lucky, she crossed my way .... Wink

    So your NexGen is coming up, or was already delivered. Wink

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