Latest post Wed, May 9 2012 9:46 PM by Job ter Burg. 11 replies.
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  • Wed, May 9 2012 2:20 PM

    • evansmalley
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    How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    I'd be real embarrased to ask this if I had any decency... but after having Avid lo these many years, I still can't seem to find a simple way to export and save a long sequence as an uncompressed, highest res possible, single file... I'm on MC 5.0.4.

    I suppose it should be a Quick Time Movie? But Avid just keeps erroring, file size limiting- etc. I just want to save a file of the sequence with no quality loss! I used to crash record it to a cameras/deck, but can't anymore (cameras won't crash record, incompatible). 

    I can always export and squeeze a QT ref- but I want to be able to save the whole program output as one (big) uncompressed file to other drives and be able to re-import it and work on them later- or just be able to save and see them as a finished work. What I want in this case is NOT a QT Ref! 

    Any suggestions of export settings that won't error or quit because of file size limits? I've mixdowned, submastered, tried lots of things, but no love! I would sure appreciate any help, feel free to ridicule and heap insults! It's embarassing to ask but I'm that desperate!

     

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  • Wed, May 9 2012 2:24 PM In reply to

    Re: How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    I would say: same-as-source Quicktime. Or a video mixdown, then reveal the resulting MXF.

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  • Wed, May 9 2012 2:26 PM In reply to

    Re: How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    How long of a sequence are we talking about?

    If you're using "Animation" codec (close enough to lossless) in the QT you're going to get a very large file.  

    evansmalley:
    Avid just keeps erroring, file size limiting- etc.

    It's possibly hitting a file size limit because the file is going to be too large to fit on the drive you've allocated it to.  

    Why not break it into chunks and export them as partA, partB, etc?  

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  • Wed, May 9 2012 2:54 PM In reply to

    Re: How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    Unless your source is uncompressed you may as well stay in the native resolution so a SAS export.

    What format is the drive you are exporting to?

    If you suspect it's an Avid error then do a QT ref to Squeeze and then get squeeze to do a QT export at the resolution of the media (so effectively SAS) that way at least MC is released while Squeeze is busy.

     

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  • Wed, May 9 2012 6:02 PM In reply to

    • evansmalley
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    Re: How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    Hey guys!-

    Thanks for writing! Your responses are facinating to me- I really appreciate them. The sequences are often just an hour or so- but at any rate they'll exceed 2 gigs. The drives I'm saving to are nowhere NEAR too full or formatted incorrectly to have the files- it's certainly Avid's file size limits that are the problem. What's the deal with Avid's file size limits? Isn't it the 1990's anyway? Why can't Avid easily export files over TWO gigabytes? Who works with many files UNDER 2 gigs anymore?! 

    But that aside, I understand that many workarounds to this are just currently part of the game. Dang. I really wish Avid could make it easier to simply export a big file. Seems like an essential function... 

    "Unless your source is uncompressed you may as well stay in the native resolution so a SAS export. If you suspect it's an Avid error then do a QT ref to Squeeze and then get squeeze to do a QT export at the resolution of the media (so effectively SAS) that way at least MC is released while Squeeze is busy."

    Thanks, Pat- I'm guessing that SAS means "same as source"- I'd love to do that! That's all I want! But the app just won't perform that task, frustratingly! (if that's a word?- should be for Avid!)

    Still, a good idea for a workaround for a job that should be super simple- "export program and save as same as source!" It's kinda funny to have to have Squeeze re-"render" a file "same as as source"! HA! 

    Job, how do you "reveal the resulting mxf"? Would any other app for just viewing be able to open it, like QuickTime player? Would it have the audio that way? Interesting idea. 

    And Kenton- 

    "If you're using "Animation" codec (close enough to lossless) in the QT you're going to get a very large file."

    That's interesting to me- what the heck IS "animation codec" and where do you get info on it? What the heck is "close ENOUGH to lossless"? And why are we living with it? Don't cha really want frikkin' totally LOSSLESS, at that point anyway! I've got plenty of (computer!) memory! Just not tons of time! 

    I just want to have "export sequence as same as source" to a file, period. No restrictions or extensive workarounds. Is that so crazy?

    Thanks for your thoughts, guys! You're awesome. Any others?

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  • Wed, May 9 2012 6:14 PM In reply to

    Re: How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    The only file size export limits I know of with Avid Are OMF and AVI exports being limited to 2GB for the OMF thats rarely an issue and we use AAF which isn't limited.

    I regularly do 20-120GB QT exports from Avid with no problem. And would only expect a probelm if the drive format was FAT. For a PC it should be NTFS and for a MAC HFS+

    So if you system is setup correctly and has the right format drive you should be able to exprot same as source for an hour long program with no trouble. Thousands of Avid editors do it every day.

    I guess you need to be working with video for a while longer to understand why compression is used and what it achieves for us. Heck even digital uncompressed is a form of compression by virtue of the fact we sample and quantise the image. So if pure is what you wnat then best look at Red and 4K but even then it's still not full res.....

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Wed, May 9 2012 7:18 PM In reply to

    Re: How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    evansmalley:
    Why can't Avid easily export files over TWO gigabytes?

    It can, I've exported very large QTs from Avid.

    evansmalley:
    Who works with many files UNDER 2 gigs anymore?! 

    Hardly anyone, and it's a non-issue if you're using QT and NTFS or HFS+ formatted drives.  Has been possible for a very long time.

    evansmalley:
    what the heck IS "animation codec" and where do you get info on it?

    When you choose to export as a QT, you must specify the codec.  Animation is popular because there is no discernable compression ("close enough to lossless") and it's playable on any computer.  H.264 is another codec, as is DNxHD, Photo-JPEG etc.  Each have strengths and weaknesses.  You wouldn't really ever want to use the codec choice "None" because while it applies no compression, it creates a file that is astronomically large and impossible to playback.   

    However, you can forget all about codecs if you choose "Same As Source" because that takes the codec that your media currently is in and uses that as the codec for the QT file.  So, you're telling QT to use the same codec as the media in Avid (ie, if you imported your footage at DV25, it would use DV25 when you did the export)  

    evansmalley:
    I've got plenty of (computer!) memory!

    Your RAM has nothing to do with any of this.  

    What are you choosing when you hit Export?  

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  • Wed, May 9 2012 7:41 PM In reply to

    Re: How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    evansmalley:
    Why can't Avid easily export files over TWO gigabytes?
    It most certainly can, I'm doing 10Gb or bigger exports very often. Make sure your drives are formatted NFTS or HFS+, not FAT. Avid has no export file size limit. If you are encountering such a limit, it is being caused by something in your system.

    evansmalley:
    I really wish Avid could make it easier to simply export a big file
    Again, File->Export->QT Movie->Same-As-Source. Simple. No recompression, safe for rendered effects. Done. It's not going to get any better by blowing up the file size. Information that is not there in your final sequence is not going to magically be created if you export in Animation or some other codec. In fact, if you export to another codec, that would be more risky (if you use QT export to export H264 or ProRes, this will give you unintentional gamma shifts, for example).

    Any Mac or PC that has the (freely available) Avid QT codec installed can play back such as Same-As-Source file.

    evansmalley:
    the app just won't perform that task, frustratingly!
    Of course it will. Again, doing this almost daily. In the export window, choose QT movie, then click the "Same-As-Source" button, select Video, Audio, or both, choose Rec601/709 as the color space (keeps things native).

    The only caveat is that you need to be working in Avid media to do a Same-As-Source export. So if you are AMA-linked to H264 or R3D, it's not going to work. In that case, I'd advise you to do a mixdown to an Avid codec. Avid has Uncompressed 8-bit and Uncompressed 10-bit for both SD and HD (these would make very little sense if your sources are H264, though, so you may consider using 175/185/220/x). After that, export the mixdown Same-As-Source.

    evansmalley:
    Job, how do you "reveal the resulting mxf"?
    If you do a mixdown, that mixdown will appear in a bin. Select the file in the bin and choose File->Reveal File. This will open a finder window with the related mediafile. Thing is, that file will be one track of video or audio only (picture and sound tracks are stored individually), and you cannot play these files back in much else but in Avid. The Same-As-Source QT can contain the mixed sound (or multichannel if you like), and can be played back on other computers more easily.

    evansmalley:
    It's kinda funny to have to have Squeeze re-"render" a file "same as as source"!
    That's not what Pat means. QT Ref basically is a pointer to the Avid mediafiles, rather than creating a self-containing movie (which Same As Source does). You can do a QT Ref and feed that into Squeeze, then let Squeeze transcode to whatever filetype you like.

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  • Wed, May 9 2012 9:04 PM In reply to

    • evansmalley
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    Re: How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    Man if " File->Export->QT Movie->Same-As-Source. Simple." worked at all, I'd never be writing this!

    Sure all my drives are NTFS- of course! And of course I totally understand why compression is good- for certain uses!- I Squeeze very much! I was just wanting a simpler way to just save your whole dang sequence, into one file, without any compression (no matter the file size) And I wasn't referring to RAM memory, just the plenty of open drives I have- (as compared to my personal memory!)  

    And Job- exactly!

    "Thing is, that file will be one track of video or audio only (picture and sound tracks are stored individually), and you cannot play these files back in much else but in Avid." is exactly what I'm wanting to NOT do. I did know I could do that, but I was hoping there was a way to save it as a single file in an uncompressed format that actually just played. Anywhere? I'd guess in QuickTime Player? Playing it isn't very important compared to just being able to save it in highest res easily... 

    I'll re-try "same as source" again, but I'm sure I've tried that many times and it didn't work which is why I asked the original question-

    I really do appreciate you guys who are excellent pros always being willing to try to help a fellow traveller. Thanks much!  

    Avid Media Composer 5.0.4, Windows7 Pro 64 bit sp1, i7-960 Intel processor, 8 gig DDR3 RAM, SSD 64gig boot drive, Samsung F3 1TB D drive, nVidia Quadro... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 9 2012 9:10 PM In reply to

    Re: How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    evansmalley:
    Man if " File->Export->QT Movie->Same-As-Source. Simple." worked at all, I'd never be writing this!

    It should work. If it doesn't work for you, something is wrong, and you should try to find the culprit, since you will be much better off once you tackle the issue. But if you want to find out what the trouble is, but then let's get some more info.

    First: what's the source footage? How did you capture/import/ingest? What is the resolution of the elements in your timeline (one and the same resolution, or do you have titles/renders in one codec, source footage in another)? How long is your sequence?

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  • Wed, May 9 2012 9:35 PM In reply to

    • evansmalley
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    Re: How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    Yeah good points. I think that a lot of the older sequences I were trying to export were originally HDV and need to be transcoded to be exported non long GOP. That could be a big part of the problem.

    I do notice that the video mixdown settings have few options and I can't see how to get more in the dialog. I've thought that you've got to mixdown and transcode the mixdown to export properly. Maybe some of my problem is using the submaster FX trick to avoid mixdowns- which works great for QTrefs but maybe not QT movies?

     

     

    Avid Media Composer 5.0.4, Windows7 Pro 64 bit sp1, i7-960 Intel processor, 8 gig DDR3 RAM, SSD 64gig boot drive, Samsung F3 1TB D drive, nVidia Quadro... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 9 2012 9:46 PM In reply to

    Re: How to export/save a long sequence as highest res file?

    evansmalley:
    originally HDV and need to be transcoded to be exported non long GOP
    Yes, that makes sense.

    evansmalley:
    I do notice that the video mixdown settings have few options and I can't see how to get more in the dialog.
    The video mixdown window lets you choose a destination codec. Maybe that you are in a Thin Raster project, that may limit your options (I would change it to Full Raster in that case). If you're coming from HDV, it makes no sense to 'up' it to 1:1. 175/185/220 would most certainly suffice (175 for 24fps, 185 for 25fps, 220 for 30fps).

    evansmalley:
    I've thought that you've got to mixdown and transcode the mixdown to export properly.
    No, just do a mixdown in the right codec.

    evansmalley:
    the submaster FX trick to avoid mixdowns
    The submaster trick should work similarly, depending on your render settings (Tools->Media Creation). Would take the same render time, by the way.

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