Latest post Mon, Feb 14 2011 7:13 PM by FunkyDragon. 54 replies.
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  • Mon, Feb 14 2011 1:19 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 is a Ferrari

    But in all seriousness, I just want to say to Liquid users as I did in another related thread - if you came over from Liquid directly to MC 5, don't pass judgement on it until you have tried MC 4, which you can do if you bought into Composer during the promotional period last year when you bought MC 4 with a free upgrade to MC 5. Many users who did never installed or used MC 4 and just waited for MC 5. It is my considered opinion, having used Media Composer since 1990 with Media Composer 1, that MC hit it's Zenith with that version for stability, reliability and ultimate flexibility in the GUI. In fact, most of the complaints that you see in the Referendum thread are specifically about what has been taken away in MC 5 that was available in MC 4. So if you have it, and you're that unhappy with MC 5, give MC 4 a test drive and experience the difference for yourself. The two significant drawbacks will be less supported formats for native function in the MC timeline and less flexibility in the drag and drop modes. Also, no stereo tracks or RTAS effects.

    And for those of you who do not know, Media Composer was very strongly modeled on the traditional and time honored style of classic film editing. In fact, it is a virtual version of a classic film editing suite, complete with virtual versions of cloth bins, film clips that hung on a rail into those bins, and a timeline, which for all intent and purposes is a virtual version of a multi-platter flatbed film editing table - one model of which was a Steenbeck (no, that's not me sitting there) - complete with filler tracks, slip-slide editing functions, and snubbing rollers. If you're unfamiliar with that type of system, and you have access to either a museum or a local TV station or school that still has an operational suite, it would be well worth it for you to spend some time there. It will help you better understand how MC works and give you an appreciation for the design and intent of Composer. In fact, the ancestor of Media Composer was a pre-ILM George Lucas custom built editing system that was known as EditDroid. He later sold it to a group of investors who formed Avid and developed it into Media Composer.

    And I'm not posting this trying to downplay or be negatively critical of any of the modern NLEs other than Composer on the market today. I'm just trying to give newcomers to Composer who are having difficulty finding their way around it some perspective about it's roots and original design to help you wrap your brain around how it works and was intended to be used. And those roots are in the professional feature film editing environment and the means by which film editing moved from the linear to the virtual non-linear world of editing.

    Also, for an even more rudimentary prototype of non-linear editing, in the early 70's, Francis Ford Coppola developed an editing system (IIRC, the system was called "Montage") that used consumer Betamax videotape to create non-linear editing of dailies in an offline mode while on location. Coppola was the first film director to develop split beam lenses to use video assist during filming for instant review of takes, which has become an essential standard tool today.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Mon, Feb 14 2011 1:21 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    Re: MC5 is a Ferrari

    drbgaijin:

    In all honesty -  do you remember your days on the Pinnacle Liquid Forum. Do you remember the times that Pinnacle Studio Users popped in and started to ask for a "Dumbed down" version of Liquid, so that they could migrate "upwards"?? Do you remember the heated responses from the Liqid users?

    Well now the shoe is on the other foot...

    I remember very clearly, Douglas Stick out tongue

    I'm amazed at how quickly folks jump on the 'MC isn't as good as <insert your NLE here>' bandwagon. I absolutely loved Liquid, but there were things about it that also drove me nuts. The thing with MC that your tutorial series really emphasised is that you can't use the the same workflow in MC as you did in Liquid or else you will become very frustrated. This is the best piece of advice out there for folks coming from Liquid to MC.

    You know, recently I was looking for some tutorials for Marquee and I happened across a series of tutorials from a site called GeniusDV (http://www.youtube.com/user/GDVTutorials) - they had some pretty interesting tutorials that demonstrate workflows in MC that I'd really overlooked - particularly the use of the paint tool for secondary color correction (in a matter of speaking). My point is that there are things you can do with MC that we only dreamt of in Liquid (including the built-in trackers and truly keyframeable paint and animatte effects).

    Very cool. I'm pretty sure I haven't tapped into even 20% of MC's capabilities...

    Cheers

     

     

    Camera(s) PXW-X70, HDR-FX1, Hero 6 Black | MC 18.12.1 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2019 | Sapphire 2019 | Mocha Pro 2019 | Titler Pro 6 | Windows 10 Pro x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

    ______________________

    www.nelliedogstudios.com

  • Mon, Feb 14 2011 1:35 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC5 is a Ferrari

    BarkinMadd:
    The thing with MC that your tutorial series really emphasised is that you can't use the the same workflow in MC as you did in Liquid or else you will become very frustrated. This is the best piece of advice out there for folks coming from Liquid to MC.

    Steve,

    Thanks for pointing out that old advice of mine!

    Let me say this: I often refer to my own tutorials to remind myself of how I can do things the MC way.

    I am almost certain that if any of those new MC users who are asking can this and this be done in MC... took a couple of minutes a day an watched the tutorials I have done when I was also a complete newcomer to MC then they would see what a great application they have in front of themselves.
    It took me over 600 hours to put together those 201 Tutorials...... there are actually some things in them that are of use. But they have to be watched. The transfer is not telepathic.

    Also Larry's reminder above is so very important.

    I, myself,  feel that the migration to MC came at a very bad time in the development of MC.

    MC 4 is a much more intuitive and stable product than MC5 is at this point in time.
    Hopefully that will be rectified in the near future.
    If you are on the point of giving up on MC, please take the time to uninstall it and install MC4 instead.
    The chances are that you will get another impression about MC.

    Regards,
    Douglas

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

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  • Mon, Feb 14 2011 1:49 PM In reply to

    • Ajbbklyn
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    Re: MC5 is a Ferrari

    Try cutting on an upright (Moviola) - with 16mm single perf - and try to avoid having the machine eat the mag track.


    The original poster merely stated that MC is a Ferrari and that you need to proceed carefully, to THINK about what you're doing, and eventually you will zoom through your projects. That this thread has devolved into a Liquid vs. MC bickerfest is disappointing.


    Both of these fine NLEs are tools in my toolbox.

    MC BOX: Media Composer 5.5.3, Quicktime 7.6.0, ADK Pro Audio Core Xtreme, i7 920 2.66gHz Quad Core, HT, 8MB cache, Intel X58 chipset, ASUS P6T SE Mobo... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 14 2011 2:04 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 is a Ferrari

    Ajbbklyn:

    That this thread has devolved into a Liquid vs. MC bickerfest is disappointing.


    Both of these fine NLEs are tools in my toolbox.

    That's quite true, and not just about Liquid and Composer. Every NLE application has it's advantages and disadvantages compared to another, and in my opinion it is pointless and a waste of time to keep trying to prove that any one app is better than another app BECAUSE...this and this and this and that. It's like comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure we all have a lot better things to do with our time than throw barbs at one NLE to attempt to elevate the position of the one we favor. My previous posting is just meant to help users migrating to MC to understand it's history and how it was designed to work. Understanding the design is key to mastering the workflow, for Media Composer or any other NLE application.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Mon, Feb 14 2011 2:12 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 is a Ferrari

    As someone who is new to MC, I consider myself privileged to be able to afford and use some of the same tools that the "big boys" use. That is one reason why I am willing to invest the time to learn this program. It wasn't too long ago that editing with Avid was a 5 figure investment.  

    I also have the Adobe CS5 Master which includes Premiere Pro/After Effects and I use all the other tools in that suite on a daily basis (Illustrator, Indesign, Photoshop, Dreamweaver). But when it comes to doing some video, I really like to fire up the Avid. It just feels like the right tool for the job. It's like learning a language, slow and frustrating at first, but then it starts to flow.

    I remember when there was a similar program at the beginning of the "desktop publishing" revolution called Ventura Publisher. It was based on the GEM operating system. It was powerful and precise, but difficult to learn. I loved it, but eventually it was pushed out of the market by Quark, Indesign, Framemaker, and other simpler alternatives. I do hope that Avid developers don't make the same mistake as Xerox. I want Avid to stay on top, as I am a fan as well as a user. It's odd how we develop affections for our tools.

    I hope Avid follows in the AutoCad format. Nothing has managed to dethrone that architecture software juggernaut.

  • Mon, Feb 14 2011 2:27 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 is a Ferrari

    AgentOfChange:
    It wasn't too long ago that editing with Avid was a 5 figure investment.

    And 12 years ago, it was a 6 figure investment - delivered as a turnkey system with all proprietary Avid hardware - you supply the VTR (usually an additional $35 grand), client monitor, and other ancillary hardware you judged necessary: scopes, audio consoles, high quality amplifiers and speakers, etc. I remember some freelance editors at that time who took out loans to buy Composer, putting their homes up as collateral. For some of them it worked out, for others it was a very big mistake.

     

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Mon, Feb 14 2011 5:18 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    Re: MC5 is a Ferrari

    ...and I don't miss that at all!

    Symphony 2018.12.3, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Mon, Feb 14 2011 5:36 PM In reply to

    • AKA Dave
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    Re: MC5 is a Ferrari

    carlgmi:

    MC - "Give me a sweet dissolve"
    LIQ - "I'll have 2 dissolves only sweeter..."

     

    Better do better than that.  Dissolves are real time.  The MC Ferrari won't even have to leave first gear!

     

    Dave

    MC 8.4.0 with Symphony Option. 27 Inch iMac. 3.5 GHz i7, 16GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB, OS X 10.10.3 - MacBook Air i5 4GB RAM [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 14 2011 7:13 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 is a Ferrari

    AKA Dave:

    carlgmi:

    MC - "Give me a sweet dissolve"
    LIQ - "I'll have 2 dissolves only sweeter..."

     

    Better do better than that.  Dissolves are real time.  The MC Ferrari won't even have to leave first gear!

     

    Dave

    Pshhh!  Better than that: The MC Ferrari adds disolves IN-OUT, Skipping over existing ones, allowing you to chose which tracks you want the disolve, all while the gagues sweep when you push the Start Engine Button!

    Media Composer 8.2 Dongle+Symphony Option Win7x64 Pro HP zBook 15" Laptop - 16GB RAM (2nd System) Media Composer 8.2 Dongle+Symphony Option - HP z420... [view my complete system specs]

     The FunkyDragon 

    Happy Editing!

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