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  • Wed, Jun 22 2022 2:52 PM

    Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    ...of the Current Project."

    "..you cannot batch capture, batch import or relink to these clips."

    I'm in a UHD 29.97 Project and this is a familiar warning message, which I have never needed to pay much attention to. I just wanted the stuff in the machine.

    But since I do expect that there may be some Relinking and possibly Batch Importing in this current project, what is the best course to take?

    I tried adjusting the Playback Rate in Source Settings, but I still got that "Some clips..." message prior to Transcode.

    Did I miss a step?

    Do I just use MC to first make high-quality copies @ my preferred FPS, then bring those in to the project?

    I am tempted to just Export an OP1a MXF 3840x2160 of each linked iPhone ProRes UHD-sized clip... at 29.97 and consider those exports my camera originals.  Any thoughts on that?

    I don't care about doing the extra Export/Import steps-- it is a long range project.

    Thanks for any tips...

     

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller for silky smooth playback; Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch; AJA i/o Express with... [view my complete system specs]

     

    -Telegram!

     

  • Wed, Jun 22 2022 4:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    Telegram!:

    I am tempted to just Export an OP1a MXF 3840x2160 of each linked iPhone ProRes UHD-sized clip... at 29.97 and consider those exports my camera originals.  Any thoughts on that?

    I'm working on a long-form doc with mixed rates, This is exactly what I have done - transcoded to a high-quality mezzanine with the framerate conversion baked in, then made an offline from that.

    I took it a step further, promoted the framerate chip, and did a fluid motion to convert the video clips, rather than using a source side framerate conversion. 

    I don't want to risk things not re-linking back, Although if they don't, I could just transcode the online master to match the offline framerate and relink those two.

    Editing Movie Magic.

    My Equipment & System Specs

  • Wed, Jun 22 2022 5:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    Thanks, Philip, for pitching in.

    I just realized that the iPhone13 files are showing 29.98 in the phone, 2997 in MediaInfo on my PC, and UME in Souirce Browser was used. When I switch to QT in Source Browser, it then shows 29.97.

    Is there a compelling reason to avoid the QT Source Browser plugin? Will I regret it in a few years? I'm going to probably do all the work on my same PC.

    For your stuff- did you promote to Fluid Motion, like me, for 30FPS > 2997, or for ?? >> ??.

    What is your mezzanine format?  I was just going to run it off the Timeline with a green dot >> OP1a MXF and see what if any difference there was in Duration.

    What Fluid Motion settings are you using?

    Thanks.

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller for silky smooth playback; Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch; AJA i/o Express with... [view my complete system specs]

     

    -Telegram!

     

  • Wed, Jun 22 2022 11:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    Telegram!:

    I just realized that the iPhone13 files are showing 29.98 in the phone, 2997 in MediaInfo on my PC, and UME in Souirce Browser was used. When I switch to QT in Source Browser, it then shows 29.97.

    Pat H. can tell you which one of those are correct, I'm sure. 

    Telegram!:

    Thanks, Philip, for pitching in.

    Is there a compelling reason to avoid the QT Source Browser plugin? Will I regret it in a few years? I'm going to probably do all the work on my same PC.

    I use the quicktime plugin to link media when UME doesn't work - As it's a newer media engine there are bugs on my version of Composer that have not been fixed yet.

    Only thing I could think of is that it's a newer media engine, so it offers faster transcoding/playback performance than the QT based engine. I know UME works slightly differently to QT too, again Pat can tell you all about that. 

    For my doc I promoted the source side framerate conversion into a fluid morph effect. I didn't want to have duplicate/skipped frames and I did not want to slow/speed my video up, so I fluid morphed it to blend the frames and morph them into eachother. It works well. I just did a stringout of the linked clip, added the effect, rendered it, then exported the timeline - You could also in theory mixdown. 

    I transcoded/exported to DNxHR HQ x - but if you were really serious about it you could transcode the linked cameraoriginal to DNx uncompressed 1:1 > I then created my DNxHR LB offline version. There should be no issue at all re-linking these afterward.

    Editing Movie Magic.

    My Equipment & System Specs

  • Thu, Jun 23 2022 5:27 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    Thanks for all the suggestions. I still want to know what the before and after framerate was on your source footage sent in for a Fluid Motion TW effect...?

    I am only going from a 30.00 FPS UME link to 29.97. I took your advice and exported a 4 minute 30 FPS clip from a UHD timeline, to DNxUncompressed 422 10bit. It took less than 8 mins. on my system. I saw that I only lost 1 frame of Duration over 3 Min, 44 seconds..

    I only viewed with MC Full Screen, but the individual frames seemed sharp, and I think I'm going to avoid the much longer Export time involved going directly from the camera original clip + TW Fluid Motion >> Uncompressed. I have many camera clips that are waay longer in duration, so I gotta draw the line somewhere.

    From my 2997 Uncompressed links, I'll be making full duration LB masterclips, plus a bunch of TW speed effect versions, before dumping the Uncompressed files -- I don't have the storage for it all.

    I spoke too soon with that Quicktime Plug-in comment I made above. Turns out that most- but not all-- of my iPhone13 clips showed 2997 after switching SB plug-in to QT. A few stayed at 30.00, for no apparent reason-- I hadn't changed camera settings between shots.

    So it's back to UME for me, on v2022.4. Out with the old and in with the new. You wrote above that UME has some hitches on your Composer version... does that include v2022.4?

     

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller for silky smooth playback; Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch; AJA i/o Express with... [view my complete system specs]

     

    -Telegram!

     

  • Thu, Jun 23 2022 6:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    Telegram!:

    Thanks for all the suggestions. I still want to know what the before and after framerate was on your source footage sent in for a Fluid Motion TW effect...?

    Forgive me I don't remember what the original framerate was, I might be able to check when I have time - it's on another drive, a bit of a faff for me to get out. 

    I'm on 2021.3 - UME bugs like h.265 background transcodes stalling, or h.264 foregrounds upstream pipe stalls. When I test 2022.6 or 2022.7 I don't know which it will be at this point I will get back to you with any UME issues I might find.

    Editing Movie Magic.

    My Equipment & System Specs

  • Thu, Jun 23 2022 11:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    OK, don't bother.l No need to waste time on it.

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller for silky smooth playback; Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch; AJA i/o Express with... [view my complete system specs]

     

    -Telegram!

     

  • Sun, Jun 26 2022 3:19 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    Phone footage is notorious for not being a standard frame rate.  It should always run through a conversion to a known stable source frame rate.

     

    The rule in my suite is "everything is the edit frame rate before it gets into the show"

    It isn't a huge issue if it is a quick an dirty project, that is only touching Avid, but most of my shows go out to Resolve for color, and back into Avid for mastering, and conversion to what ever the distributor wants for frame rates.

    I just did a 45 min broadcast using shot 23.976, supplied 25, supplied 29.97i and some supplied phone footage and go pro that may or may not have been shot at slow mo.

    It all goes through a process of either Resolve or compressor to do a conversion to 23.976, either to clean up the interlacing, or do a 1 to 1 conversion from 25.  This all becomes my new master files, that i then either link to or transcode to low res, depending on the scope of the project, and how i'm feeling that day.

    I have an EA working with me right now on a show.  His first job is to make sure all footage that we receive is at the proper frame rate.

    Current Avid-Z390 Win 10 Intel i9 64gig ram Radeon VII MC current level - Win 10 64 Gig Ram [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 26 2022 4:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    Glenn Sakatch:

    Phone footage is notorious for not being a standard frame rate.  It should always run through a conversion to a known stable source frame rate.

     

    The rule in my suite is "everything is the edit frame rate before it gets into the show"

    It isn't a huge issue if it is a quick an dirty project, that is only touching Avid, but most of my shows go out to Resolve for color, and back into Avid for mastering, and conversion to what ever the distributor wants for frame rates.

    I just did a 45 min broadcast using shot 23.976, supplied 25, supplied 29.97i and some supplied phone footage and go pro that may or may not have been shot at slow mo.

    It all goes through a process of either Resolve or compressor to do a conversion to 23.976, either to clean up the interlacing, or do a 1 to 1 conversion from 25.  This all becomes my new master files, that i then either link to or transcode to low res, depending on the scope of the project, and how i'm feeling that day.

    I have an EA working with me right now on a show.  His first job is to make sure all footage that we receive is at the proper frame rate.

     

    Glenn, Thanks for that workflow and perspective. I totally agree that getting rid of wrong-framerate material is a smart move-- for my thing, are you in any way opposedto my exporting a 30FPS clip, from a UHD 2997 MC Project timeline, to an OP1a MXF... that then turns around and gets linked, then transcoded, into MC v2022.4 at 29.97, as if the original 30FPS didn't exist? In essesnce, using my same MC & version to act as that "compressor" or Resolve initial process you described.

    I have taken steps to have the Starting TC match.

    Sorry, another question, but don't bother to answer if answering it ruins your day...Big Smile

    I am wondering how MC would behave if I simply ignored the initial "Some clips do not match the Edit rate.." warning above, went ahead and pressed "Convert" to transcoded anyway, went on to Group some other 29.97 masterclips alongside those nasty, possibly 30 FPS iPhoneclip masterclips-- having eventually (probably) cut that Group clip down in an offline process, using sequence Consolidate. (i.e. while making selects- in order to free up some drive space)

    If, for some reason, well into editing, I wanted to Relink an edited sequence section back to the original full-length, pre-consolidated 30FPS AMA Link of the original 30FPS iPhone footage....what is the likely response from within MC? Would it A) ignore me, B) issue another edit rate message saying "no dice", or C) attempt to do the Relink?  I suppose there's only one way to find out...)

    In a related question: If I link/transcode to one of my converted OP1a files, which are 2997... then consolidate for selects as I described above-- but NEVER added a unique Disk Label to the link/transcode masterclip... can I add that meta data to both the Consolidated materclips AND that original transcoded full-length (i.e., pre-Consolidated) masterclip.... and get the same Relink results that I would've had I added a Disk Label prior to my consolidate?

    You can guess that I have a few transcoded OP1a MXFs that I had not added a Disk Label to, prior to transcoding to UHD DNxHR LB.

     

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller for silky smooth playback; Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch; AJA i/o Express with... [view my complete system specs]

     

    -Telegram!

     

  • Sun, Jun 26 2022 5:12 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    In the end, the workflow has to make sense to you.

    If you are trying to convert phone footage into 2997, and you want to do it in Avid, i would start by linking to the footage in a 29.97 project, put it on the timeline, and promote the motion adapter, changing the speed to 100 percent.  This should give you a 1 to 1 conversion of the clip.  Check the clip for duplicate frames, or stutters...all the usual suspects.

    Once it looks good, you should be able to export that piece of timeline to a new "master" clip, at 29.97.

     

    You could also create a project that matches the phone footage, bring the clips into that project, and create a timeline.

    Then in the 29.97 project, open the bin from the phone project, and open the timeline.  Avid will make a duplicate of the timeline, converted to 29.97.  From there you should see every clip with a motion adapter on it.  Either promote those, and set to 100 percent, or leave them alone, if you don't see any issues with the footage.  It really depends on the footage, and the frame rate, and how Avid is able to deal with it.

    I rarely work in anything other than 23.976, so my 29.97p workflow is a bit rusty. :)

     

    What codec you use depends on your workflow, your drive space.  I usually go pretty decent sized master files, trying to match the original size as much as possible.  Usually a Prores HQ or DNXHQ should suffice.  On my system, i can easily link to those for good playback, or import them, and I think you will get a fast import.

    Its a pain to have to make new master files, but in the end, it is quite often worth the pain.

    (I do usually keep a folder of the originals in a "do not use" folder...i hate deleteing anything.)

    Current Avid-Z390 Win 10 Intel i9 64gig ram Radeon VII MC current level - Win 10 64 Gig Ram [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 26 2022 5:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    Thank you again, Glenn.

    I wonder if you may have an opinion:

    If you were going from 30 FPS to 2997, using MC, would you assume the only "damage" to the video

    would be a minor change in the before >> after Duration?

    And that would likely be due to some dropped frames?

     

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller for silky smooth playback; Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch; AJA i/o Express with... [view my complete system specs]

     

    -Telegram!

     

  • Sun, Jun 26 2022 7:25 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
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    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    Glenn Sakatch:

    The rule in my suite is "everything is the edit frame rate before it gets into the show"

    It isn't a huge issue if it is a quick an dirty project, that is only touching Avid, but most of my shows go out to Resolve for color, and back into Avid for mastering, and conversion to what ever the distributor wants for frame rates.

    Here is a different opinion on the same issue.  I am primarily a finishing editor that has to deal with decisions made months or years in advance with the goal of getting through QC of various organizations.  That said ....

    I always council offline editors / edit assits using Avid to keep everything in the frame rate and raster size it was shot.  Go ahead and make lower data rate proxies if needed, but keep it as it was shot.  Here are my reasons:

    Frame rate:  1. You never know how you are going to manipulate a shot in a creative edit.  If you bake in a speed change before cutting and then decide to do a speed change to that clip, you will never get as good a result as when you are working with the original frame rate.  Avid does a great job handling frame rates which do not match the timeline frame rate. You are not locked in to an earlier decision.  The one exception I MIGHT make is to remove baked in 2:3 pulldown on source to give me true 23.97p.  And this would be true even if the sequence frame rate is 29.97.  But this would depend on circumstances.

    2. Technology for changing frame rate is getting better all the time.  The best tool you had in the beginning might be out of date when you get to finishing.  Plus the best frame rate conversions these days are SLOW (see Resolve Speed Warp).  Why waste time converting what could be hours of footage that might never make it to final?

    Raster Size:  Really the same reasons as above.  And this is especially true when using SD interlace material in a progressive HD or UHD final.  You really don't want to bake in a scale up at the beginning to only realize you want to blow it up some more in finishing.  That will NOT look good.

    As a finishing editor I like working with the real source material.  I have so many more options to deal with problems or creative requests.  And it costs time and money when I suggest we dig back to original - which I will do if needed.

    Just my opinion.

    Jef

     

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." 2021 iMac w Big Sur [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

  • Sun, Jun 26 2022 9:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    .... 

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller for silky smooth playback; Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch; AJA i/o Express with... [view my complete system specs]

     

    -Telegram!

     

  • Mon, Jun 27 2022 6:14 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 4,003
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    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    Telegram!:

    .... 

    Telegram!,

    Not sure what is going on in the forum but the quote above is what I see.  But I received a email response that is much longer from Telegram.  It was not a direct message (at least I do not think so) as the From address was Forum Administrator.

    You might want to repost that if you can if in fact you wanted it to be public (could not see any reason not ....)

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." 2021 iMac w Big Sur [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

  • Mon, Jun 27 2022 6:46 PM In reply to

    Re: Advice? Transcode strategy for clips that "Do not Match the Edit rate...

    Hi Jef,

    You're right I did remove it because on second thought I may have been veering off topic, or changing conversation too soon. I basically was curious about your perspective, as a finishing expert, on the kinds of surprises or un-anticipated demands that you've seen coming back from the QC folks involved with streaming content... and what are the sorts of things they choose to complain about or might reject. I was also wondering if the custom is to make a master in say, 2997 UHD, and then use completed file to convert to any other required framerates/specs for the deliverables. Also, I was curious about any artifacts that occur on the edit points, on the converted version, if that's the case. Thanks...!

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller for silky smooth playback; Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch; AJA i/o Express with... [view my complete system specs]

     

    -Telegram!

     

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